Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[steamboat1]

Naive question......but with $4.15M to fix the tram, what would a new quad cost to install by comparison?

Sounds like close to $6m.

"Mt. Bachelor will open the long-awaited east side expansion served by a new high speed quad called Cloudchaser in time for Christmas. Powdr Corp. has signed a nearly $6 million contract with Doppelmayr to install the lift this summer."

 

[VTKilarney]

Sounds like close to $6m.

"Mt. Bachelor will open the long-awaited east side expansion served by a new high speed quad called Cloudchaser in time for Christmas. Powdr Corp. has signed a nearly $6 million contract with Doppelmayr to install the lift this summer."

My guess was $6 to $7 million. The terrain would likely make it trickier than normal.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Governor going to be at Jay this morning to meet with some staff and say Governor-y stuff. It was kept off his schedule till midnight, likely to keep the media circus under control.

It is shocking to me how little accountability and consequences the government is facing thus far.

The State of Vermont did NOTHING in terms of financial analysis and accounting over this program, and 100% repeatedly lied to the people.

The State of Vemmont was not an innocent bystander in this, there were 100% negligent in their fiduciary duties.

If this SAME thing happened at a private corporation, MANY people would have already been fired (and possibly worse), but sadly, because the government owns the bayonets and guns, it's all good.

 

[BenedictGomez]

What I'd still really like to know is if Brent Raymond has been investigated by the SEC as well?

I still consider it a 50:50 coin toss between "direct involvement" and "stereotypical incompetent government employee", but I'd love to see that path delved into so we know for sure.

For me, at this point it's the biggest loose end in this matter, whether he or some other person(s) at State of Vermont had direct involvement, because even for someone like myself, who previously thought government incompetence can never be considered "shocking" - this is shocking.

To summarize: State of Vermont is so unbelievably grossly incompetent, that this has always appeared more "willful" to me, than inept.

 

[steamboat1]

Having witnessed 1st hand how bubbles handle the for the last 5 seasons now, that statement just isn't completely true at all. Sure, there are winds that a bubble can't run in (just like any other lift), however, with the bubble down, the sheer mass of the chair (a bubble 6 pack weighs about 1400lbs before you even put a person on the lift) vs. a non bubble chair allows them to handle winds that non bubble chairs can't safely operate in.

On windy days, the bubble NEEDS to be down, and from what I experience at Mount Snow, the lift ops folks are quite clear and adamant about having to put the bubble down on a windy day for the safe operation of the lift. I've been on many bubble rides, on days where it's gusting over 50, that the without a bubble would handle wind better bubble is running (not at full speed, but is operating) when multiple high speed and fixed grips lifts can't.

So to say that bubbles are more susceptible to the wind, just hasn't been my experience over the last 5 seasons, totaling over 200 days, when Mount Snow has been running their bubble

I'm not taking anything away from bubbles but I would think a six pack without a bubble would handle wind better than one with a bubble. The chairs themselves weigh a lot more than a quad chair & without the wind resistance of a bubble would be better in wind IMO.

 

[VTKilarney]

I think it's time to bring back Mr. Cranmore's skimobile.

 

[deadheadskier]

Reason why I was asking is that while iconic, if I were a buyer of this mess, and I had $4.5M in capital to spend on this issue, I might consider the option of a new Quad altogether if the tram could remain in place until such time as I wanted to repair it.

That isn't a likely scenario but.....I was just throwing around ideas

I would think a HSQ in that location would cost considerably more than $4M. Really steep top section would require tremendous horsepower to operate and challenging lift tower placement.

Other consideration is where to start the lift? Certainly wouldn't want it to start at the base where the Tram is today.

Factor in the cost of removing the Tram and it would be one of the more expensive installs the Northeast has ever seen. The Mid Burke cost $5M. I would anticipate a summit HSQ at Jay costing much more.

Smarter money would be to fix the Tram; mainly for non-skiing purposes and then bring back the old summit double if you could squeeze it in skiers left of the Tram.

 

[Edd]

Anti-tram though I am, we're forgetting something. If the tram is ditched the name of the hotel, Tram Haus, no longer makes sense.

Come on guys (taps temple condescendingly), use your brains.

 

[DJAK]

It is shocking to me how little accountability and consequences the government is facing thus far.

The State of Vermont did NOTHING in terms of financial analysis and accounting over this program, and 100% repeatedly lied to the people.

The State of Vemmont was not an innocent bystander in this, there were 100% negligent in their fiduciary duties.

If this SAME thing happened at a private corporation, MANY people would have already been fired (and possibly worse), but sadly, because the government owns the bayonets and guns, it's all good.

I'd agree. And it's a big reason why I give Bill some credit. From 2008 till 2013 AQ owned 80% of the mountain and everyone was cheering Bill on to fulfill these promises at the resort he's run for 30 years. What was Bill going to do if he smelled fishy from AQ? Halt everything? Break every promise made to staff, region, based on stuff the resort owner was doing no one seemed to care about? Tough spot.

 

[VTKilarney]

I'd agree. And it's a big reason why I give Bill some credit. From 2008 till 2013 AQ owned 80% of the mountain and everyone was cheering Bill on to fulfill these promises at the resort he's run for 30 years. What was Bill going to do if he smelled fishy from AQ? Halt everything? Break every promise made to staff, region, based on stuff the resort owner was doing no one seemed to care about? Tough spot.

It may have been a tough spot, but I don't think that "facilitate the theft of $50 million of investor's money" (allegedly, ahem...) was the right answer.

I've said before that Stenger could have come out of this looking pretty darn good if he blew the whistle a couple of years ago. The only thing that would have been lost would have been the Burke hotel and some condos at Jay. But he doubled down.

 

[MG Skier]

It was called the Skyline double and was taken down after the tram was completed I believe. coupled with the old poma off the top of now Ullrs it was a nice combo for upper elevation skiing back in the day
Walter Foeger knew what the hell he was doing IMO

One of my favorite pictures of Old Jay is the top tram house being constructed with the Skyline Double in the foreground...there is some steep stuff there!

 

[MG Skier]

Finally 50 posts! Or is it OMG I spend that much time reading alpine zone at work.......NAH!

 

[dlague]

It was called the Skyline double and was taken down after the tram was completed I believe. coupled with the old poma off the top of now Ullrs it was a nice combo for upper elevation skiing back in the day
Walter Foeger knew what the hell he was doing IMO

I have seen pictures of it and it would be nice to have something like it again.

 

[dlague]

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/n...il&utm_term=0_02c03531f8-64bce774a5-274830265

 

[mbedle]

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/n...il&utm_term=0_02c03531f8-64bce774a5-274830265

That article is very misleading, especially the following section:

-The Burlington Free Press publishes an article today claiming that cash flow issues will force Jay Peak and Q Burke Hotel (not the mountain, mind you) to close. But it seems the receivership of both properties – Q Burke Hotel was added to the receivership as well – was floated a $750,000 loan to keep the doors open for the next three months. Chill, people! Title is suggested to TGR that reads "Burke Mountain and Jay Peak Plan to Operate Normally In Opposition to Media Yelling 'Closed!' For Clicks."

 

[from_the_NEK]

That article is very misleading, especially the following section:

-The Burlington Free Press publishes an article today claiming that cash flow issues will force Jay Peak and Q Burke Hotel (not the mountain, mind you) to close. But it seems the receivership of both properties – Q Burke Hotel was added to the receivership as well – was floated a $750,000 loan to keep the doors open for the next three months. Chill, people! Title is suggested to TGR that reads "Burke Mountain and Jay Peak Plan to Operate Normally In Opposition to Media Yelling 'Closed!' For Clicks."

That had to do with the sensational headline in the BFP that had an out of context quote with no other explanation around the headline. The BFP article was HEAVILY revised after the TGR article came out.

The full TGR article was to summarize the various takes that various media outlets had on the situation while adding a bit of their own flare to it.

 

[thetrailboss]

So someone who have been following this a bit more closely than me answer this:

Initially the Tram work was going to cost in the six figures and the $750k was going to cover it. When did it balloon to $4.1 mill for the same work?

 

[from_the_NEK]

I think the initial six figure number was for a deposit to start the work.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think the initial six figure number was for a deposit to start the work.

Ah, OK. Makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[thetrailboss]

Here is the 32 minute conference.

http://www.wcax.com/story/31829194/o...ll-remain-open