Stenger and Quiros Ousted from Management of Jay Peak and Burke

[tumbler]

The more I think about this I think that Stenger was so drunk off his own Kool-aid that he was the savior of the NEK. Therefore any wrong doing that was going on would be dismissed because of all the good he was doing. A modern day Robin Hood.

 

[mbedle]

So someone who have been following this a bit more closely than me answer this:

Initially the Tram work was going to cost in the six figures and the $750k was going to cover it. When did it balloon to $4.1 mill for the same work?

The 750K loan the receivership obtained is not for Jay Peak, only the Q Burke Hotel - to cover costs for the next 3 months. The deposit needed for the Tram was, I think, slightly above 1 million.

 

[mbedle]

That had to do with the sensational headline in the BFP that had an out of context quote with no other explanation around the headline. The BFP article was HEAVILY revised after the TGR article came out.

The full TGR article was to summarize the various takes that various media outlets had on the situation while adding a bit of their own flare to it.

My problem is the article references the 750K loan from Jay Peak to Q Burke Hotel & Conference Center (for only 3 months of operations) and makes it sound like that money will allow Jay Peak and Q Burke to remain open. That is wrong and not what has occurred. The possibility of Jay Peak running out of money still very much exist, no mater what the Governor says in a news conference. The possibility that in the fall, the Q Burke Ski Resort doesn't have any money to open is also very possible - especially if they don't find a buyer by that time. Don't forget about the 5.5 million outstanding balance on the Q Burke Hotel and those leans are not going to disappear. They are just frozen like the rest of the assets.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Anti-tram though I am, we're forgetting something. If the tram is ditched the name of the hotel, Tram Haus, no longer makes sense.

Come on guys (taps temple condescendingly), use your brains.

Rename it, the Finally Skiable Terrain Haus.

I'd agree. And it's a big reason why I give Bill some credit. From 2008 till 2013 AQ owned 80% of the mountain and everyone was cheering Bill on to fulfill these promises at the resort he's run for 30 years. What was Bill going to do if he smelled fishy from AQ? Halt everything? Break every promise made to staff, region, based on stuff the resort owner was doing no one seemed to care about? Tough spot.

Assuming he didn't want to go to jail and possesses a basic moral compass distinguishing between "right" and "wrong", then, yes.

 

[steamboat1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Goldberg say that Jay would need between $7m-$11.5m to continue operations at Jay for the off season alone? I'm not sure if that includes repairs to the tram which are estimated to be $4.1m. Also I don't recall reading anything about a $1m deposit already being made towards the repair of the tram. What I remember reading is they would need to put a 50% deposit down shortly towards the cost of the repair in order to get it done. Didn't sound as if any deposit had already been made. It also doesn't sound like Jay has anywhere near that amount of cash on hand frozen or not.

 

[VTKilarney]

The deposit hadn't been made as of last week.

 

[abc]

The more I think about this I think that Stenger was so drunk off his own Kool-aid that he was the savior of the NEK. Therefore any wrong doing that was going on would be dismissed because of all the good he was doing. A modern day Robin Hood.

Ask any con man, he truly believe his own con!

He's providing for his family. The victim has tons of money surely they wouldn't feel much pain...

 

[sull1102]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Goldberg say that Jay would need between $7m-$11.5m to continue operations at Jay for the off season alone? I'm not sure if that includes repairs to the tram which are estimated to be $4.1m. Also I don't recall reading anything about a $1m deposit already being made towards the repair of the tram. What I remember reading is they would need to put a 50% deposit down shortly towards the cost of the repair in order to get it done. Didn't sound as if any deposit had already been made. It also doesn't sound like Jay has anywhere near that amount of cash on hand frozen or not.

Stowe has a nice Doppelmayr double ready to install, cost a hell of a lot less than fixing the tram. Can they not run the tram for a season and then new owners come in and repair it.

 

[drjeff]

Am I the only person that thinks that even the "arm chair ski area GM" notion of taking out what is one of the few legitimate signature lifts on the East Coast, and one that does play into Jay's marketing and branding is crazy??

 

[VTKilarney]

I mentioned that earlier. It's an iconic lift.

 

[AdironRider]

I mentioned that earlier. It's an iconic lift.

Please. Its cool and all but iconic, no way.

Jay Peak was a backwater with rumored decent snow (at the time, and for the East), just 7 or 8 years ago. Even now, the tram isn't bringing in the masses. Water park and snowfall are what drives Jay.

There is a list of lifts probably 50 long that have more recognition than Jay's tram, just in the USA.

No summit access is a major problem, but one that can be solved without necessarily the Tram. Throwing 4.1 mill at a 52 year old lift is probably not great long term thinking regardless.

 

[VTKilarney]

It's arguably the most recognizable lift in Vermont.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Please. Its cool and all but iconic, no way.

Jay Peak was a backwater with rumored decent snow (at the time, and for the East), just 7 or 8 years ago. Even now, the tram isn't bringing in the masses. Water park and snowfall are what drives Jay.

There is a list of lifts probably 50 long that have more recognition than Jay's tram, just in the USA.

No summit access is a major problem, but one that can be solved without necessarily the Tram. Throwing 4.1 mill at a 52 year old lift is probably not great long term thinking regardless.

Have to agree with this.

MRG single chair is "iconic", Jay Peak's tram is antiquated, annoying, and completely inefficient.

 

[AdironRider]

Superstar, Forerunner Quad, that orange bubble at Okemo.

Just based on skier visits alone a lot more folks have a lot more exposure to numerous lifts in just Vermont.

No-one went to Jay for the Tram, there is over 40 years of proof for that, if they do/did go, they go/went for the snow. Now they go for a water park/snow.

 

[AdironRider]

Have to agree with this.

MRG single chair is "iconic", Jay Peak's tram is antiquated, annoying, and completely inefficient.

Even Jackson's tram is inefficient at 600 people per hour max. Jay's capacity is probably substantially less on theirs.

 

[VTKilarney]

Even Jackson's tram is inefficient at 600 people per hour max. Jay's capacity is probably substantially less on theirs.

Jay's is a mere 360 per hour.

 

[cdskier]

Jay's is a mere 360 per hour.

What exactly are the benefits of a tram if the capacity is so low? They obviously don't appear to be cost efficient to maintain.

 

[fbrissette]

Superstar, Forerunner Quad, that orange bubble at Okemo.

Just based on skier visits alone a lot more folks have a lot more exposure to numerous lifts in just Vermont.

No-one went to Jay for the Tram, there is over 40 years of proof for that, if they do/did go, they go/went for the snow. Now they go for a water park/snow.

Just do a youtube search with any of the above mentioned lifts and compare against the Tram. The Tram is a different experience. A quad is just a quad.

 

[gladerider]

Please. Its cool and all but iconic, no way.

Jay Peak was a backwater with rumored decent snow (at the time, and for the East), just 7 or 8 years ago. Even now, the tram isn't bringing in the masses. Water park and snowfall are what drives Jay.

There is a list of lifts probably 50 long that have more recognition than Jay's tram, just in the USA.

No summit access is a major problem, but one that can be solved without necessarily the Tram. Throwing 4.1 mill at a 52 year old lift is probably not great long term thinking regardless.

Disagree. It's iconic simply because there is only a few. Iconic doesn't necessarily equate to popular.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

[Zermatt]

What exactly are the benefits of a tram if the capacity is so low? They obviously don't appear to be cost efficient to maintain.

It's basically old technology. I love them, but they are inefficient.

They work great in Europe where you are going up nearly vertiCal terrain over places you can't install towers.

Absolutely no technical reason Jay needs a tram. Newer lifts or Funitels could handle wind better I believe.