Storm on the way

[BenedictGomez]

One buddy even borrowed it to take his girl out for dinner.

Great ride!

The Caddy?

 

[Cornhead]

Ah memories, 70 Chevelle, no snows, empty snowy parking lots...weeeeeeee. I didn't ski back then. That's about the most fun I had on snow at the time. I've got a WRX with Blizzaks, the only thing stopping me is ground clearance. I don't know if id've made it to Belleayre during Stella. My buddy's full size GMC 4x4 with studded snows did. Even then, he was afraid to park in empty spots between cars in Belle's lot. He parked at the end of the line where it was a little less deep. I would've been an AWD snowplow. Maybe I should lift it and put taller narrower tires on it. I could go off road with it in the off season.

I don't know if there is much difference between fwd with snows, and awd with them. I had a 99 Contour SVT that my son ended up with for his first car, pretty sweet first car, anyway he put Blizzaks on it. I drove it home from Greek during a storm. I took a two lane road instead of the highway. I slammed on the brakes doing 50, the car stopped straight, abs. I thought to myself, well, if he gets in trouble in the snow, it will probably be someonelse's fault. He said he couldn't even get the ass end to slide out, bummer.[emoji16]

I did drive my mom's 2017 Accord, with newish all season radials up over some hills during a squall recently, the difference between it and my Subaru with snows was quite evident, I wasn't all over the road, but I sure wasn't as planted. Now if it had Blizzaks on it, I'm sure it'd be a different story.

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[kingslug]

If you could just raise that WRX a few inches it would be the ultimate snow sports car. I want one. STI...

 

[JimG.]

Driving home from Stowe Sunday night, there was a long backup on 100 heading back to 89 (Google map said accident). I turned around before passing it and Google rerouted me to some fairly winding and hilly side roads, all of which were very slippery. I made it through easily (AWD + snows + good driver[emoji846]) but I passed 2 or 3 cars on the climbs with blinkers on and slowly reversing down the hill. And ironically those cars all had green plates[emoji848] I certainly didn't wish any ill on those drivers, but I couldn't help thinking about forum posts dumping on "flatlander" drivers.

Drove home from K yesterday. Hit a few strong snow squalls but generally speaking the roads were clear and dry.

So I was pretty shocked to find myself behind several green plates who seemed terrified of the conditions. Like 20 MPH in a 50 terrified. I also noticed that when I attempted to pass these people they would speed up and attempt to thwart my passing efforts. That's very flatland behavior...how dare someone try to pass me!

So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.

 

[fbrissette]

Some car magazine article I read in a shop a month or so ago. They were comparing several models of snow tires vs all seasons on a couple different vehicles. The overall data averaged out to about 30% improvement on various tests for snows vs all seasons over a few different car models

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This is highly temperature dependent. At -20C and below, all season tires basically have little to no stopping power. Differences would be much much larger than 30%. 30% I believe when you are close to the freezing point.

 

[mister moose]

Pretty significant difference seen in stopping and cornering on ice (only condition i tested).​

That's the point!

"Overall" performance may be better "slightly". But it's on the marginal situation snow tires performance edge comes in handy. In fact, that's the ONLY time you really need it.

If the car with snow tire stops 5 feet shorter, and there's a tree 4 and 1/2 feet away. The "performance difference" is 100%

I think temperature is a significant factor. The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets. Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling. Horrible for snow, even with snow tires. You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires. Makes changing them easier too. And then there's driver skill. That has to be 50% right there.

Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
Changing lanes from the cow herd lane to the unplowed lane to pass.
Starting at an uphill stop sign.
Braking
Wet snow that clogs the treads full on all seasons.
Cornering on a road with a high crown

 

[Smellytele]

So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.

It is the flatlanders that fly by and then you see them off the road. Locals drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions.

 

[JimG.]

It is the flatlanders that fly by and then you see them off the road. Locals drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions.

Uh, 20 mph in a 50 mph speed zone is reasonable? Then speeding up when someone wants to pass is reasonable?

Sorry, that's just plain crappy driving!

 

[crank]

The Caddy?

yep.

 

[1dog]

I think temperature is a significant factor. The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets.[/U][/U] Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling. Horrible for snow, even with snow tires. You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires. Makes changing them easier too. And then there's driver skill. That has to be 50% right there.

Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
Changing lanes from the cow herd lane to the unplowed lane to pass.
Starting at an uphill stop sign.
Braking
Wet snow that clogs the treads full on all seasons.
Cornering on a road with a high crown

Thats why Blizzaks have the softer rubber - it does work, have had three or four sets - but they don't last the 3 or 4 seasons I need them too - and the last part they are worn so as not to have as much of the soft rubber grip.

Nokia has lasted the longest, got something else now - maybe Yokohama's I lost count.

Driving experience makes a difference. Now if people would just stop texting . . .

 

[deadheadskier]

There's lots of factors. The 30% number I threw out there was just a generalization I read in the article.

Type of vehicle matters too

I have expensive run flat Blizzaks on my AWD work van. I have a more budget friendly Dunlop winter tire on my VW Golf Alltrack. The VW smokes the van in the snow.

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[BenedictGomez]

I think temperature is a significant factor. The colder it gets, the harder and slicker the all seasons rubber compound gets. Also all seasons on sporty SUVs and Quatros these days come with low profile summer rims for good handling. Horrible for snow, even with snow tires. You really need to downsize the rim 2 inches and get a narrower, higher profile tire for your snow tires. Makes changing them easier too. And then there's driver skill. That has to be 50% right there.

Times when snow tires are more than marginally better:
Going uphill on unplowed local roads.
Changing lanes from the cow herd lane to the unplowed lane to pass.
Starting at an uphill stop sign.
Braking
Wet snow that clogs the treads full on all seasons.
Cornering on a road with a high crown

The cowherd lane is definitely a New England thing. In New Jersey and downstate New York, they plow the entire road. Doesnt matter if it's a 3 inch storm or a 33 inch storm.

As for the wheels, I intentionally have heavy steel wheels for my snow tires. Probably doesnt make too much difference, but physics and all, I figure the more weight on those 4 points, the better.

 

[2Planker]

Nokia has lasted the longest, got something else now - maybe Yokohama's I lost count.

Nokia makes cell phones.
Nokian is the tire manufacturer
Both are from Finland

 

[AbominableSnowman]

Drove home from K yesterday. Hit a few strong snow squalls but generally speaking the roads were clear and dry.

So I was pretty shocked to find myself behind several green plates who seemed terrified of the conditions. Like 20 MPH in a 50 terrified. I also noticed that when I attempted to pass these people they would speed up and attempt to thwart my passing efforts. That's very flatland behavior...how dare someone try to pass me!

So when I see posts dumping on flatlander drivers I just have to laugh.

Feeling a bit less alone after reading that comment above with "...attempt to thwart my passing efforts." I've had encountered that multiple times, even though I've always driven respectfully (haven't tailgated the driver ahead, waited a seemingly-appropriate amount of time to see if they would speed up a bit, allowed enough room to pass safely, and allowed plenty of room when passing so as not to hit them with trailing snow/spray as I transitioned back into their lane). I've never heard anyone else mention it before, though, so I was thinking perhaps it didn't happen often to others....

Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?

 

[Smellytele]

Feeling a bit less alone after reading that comment above with "...attempt to thwart my passing efforts." I've had encountered that multiple times, even though I've always driven respectfully (haven't tailgated the driver ahead, waited a seemingly-appropriate amount of time to see if they would speed up a bit, allowed enough room to pass safely, and allowed plenty of room when passing so as not to hit them with trailing snow/spray as I transitioned back into their lane). I've never heard anyone else mention it before, though, so I was thinking perhaps it didn't happen often to others....

Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?

New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.


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[Edd]

New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.


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I simply see it as good practice when visibility is compromised by rain / snow / fog. One of the layers of protection.

 

[2Planker]

New Hampshire didn’t have the law to drive with your headlights on in rain until a few years ago. In rain do they really do anything. If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.


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It is not because it does anything for you...
It's to make you more visible to everyone else.
Much like the idea of Daytime Running Lights, which are pretty much standard equipment now on most vehicles.

 

[abc]

If it is raining hard enough not to be able to see someone without their lights on maybe you shouldn’t be driving.

You always see someone, eventually. (perhaps right before you hit them) It's just a matter of from how far away you see them before you're on top of them.

In that regard, light on is ALWAYS better. You can see the light BEFORE you see the car, raining or not.

Yes, it's to help others to see you. Wouldn't you want to be MORE visible, just to maximize THEIR chance of not hitting you? I would. Call it self-preservation.

So yes, good practice. (before most states REQUIRE "Wiper on, light on", we were taught to do so as a good practice)

 

[kingslug]

Guess he should have had snowtires

 

[Cornhead]

Now, about all those drivers (from many, many different states) that drive without their headlights on in rain and snow storms, that has me very puzzled....it must be due to ignorance, right?

Worse yet, people who don't clear snow off their cars. I got hit in the windshield by a slab of frozen slush off a van's roof on 89 on my way to Stowe. I was amazed it didn't smash my windshield.


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