• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

Stowe Thread

KustyTheKlown

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
4,093
Points
113
Location
Brooklyn
Could they ever get/keep the notch road open in the winter? I know not a lot of people come to Stowe from the north but if you could get something miniscule like 10% of your guests to come from up there I bet a lot of issues would be resolved.

Since moving to Utah I've learned how much I miss all the northeast mountains with multiple entry/exit roads and routes. Stowe is the only one I can think of that everyone funnels onto one road going one direction.

even if they could keep the road clear, that would mean closing the backcountry skiing that is the very essence of stowe and smuggs. and lets be real, hardly anyone is coming from the north. i doubt even 10%
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,064
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
As a student at UVM in the late 90s, the data we were provided in a ski area management class was that Quebec visitation amounted to 12-15% of Stowe visits. It would fluctuate based upon exchange rate.

I don't ever see the notch road being open year round though. You'd probably get resistance from their neighbors on the other side of the notch.
 

SnowRock

Active member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
292
Points
28
Location
Jersey City, NJ
That road is way too narrow to keep clean in the winter and support 2 way traffic.
Right. And even if the notch was “open” it would never really be open on those days it’s most needed (e.g., pow days) . Think about the disaster that Harlow creates and then consider the notch. You’d probably get like 10 cars through on a pow day.

Better solution to open up the north route is for vail to buy Smuggs. ;)
 

flakeydog

Active member
Joined
Feb 7, 2014
Messages
187
Points
28
Location
Vermont
Could they ever get/keep the notch road open in the winter? I know not a lot of people come to Stowe from the north but if you could get something miniscule like 10% of your guests to come from up there I bet a lot of issues would be resolved.
I would put this on the list just after they replace Castlerock at Sugarbush with a HS Quad and just before they break ground on Mad River's replacement for the single chair... Plus, grades are too steep, it is scenic/historic, and it plays host to a wide variety of activities in the winter that don't involve cars. VAST snowmobile trail, hiking trail, backcountry skiing and access, ice climbing access, etc.
 

cdskier

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
5,327
Points
113
Location
NJ
Mountain road traffc was an issue pre-vail and losing the spruce parking also made things tougher… but vail offering such a discounted product only exacerbated the issue.

I’ve always thought a parking structure down by toll house, adding snow making and a new lift down there would be one of the better solves given the structural limitations with the road/existing parking infrastructure. Would also increase usage of an underutilized part of the mountain further spreading out the crowds.

But as noted the town rejected more parking there… so basically you have a town that is against something that might help and a greedy corporation that won’t limit passes. So we get the paid parking fake fix.
At somepoint the town is going to have to accept that their refusal to allow things such as offsite parking lot construction or a parking garage is actually making the prime season traffic issues far worse than being proactive in the permitting and design process for some extra parking solution. The reality is, just as it has been for a long time now, Stowe and the surrounding area will keep getting more popular, not less, regardless of what the locals want

To be fair, the proposal from Vail/Stowe only added less than 300 parking spots. I'm not sure how much of a dent that would have made on traffic. Perhaps the town would be more receptive to a more comprehensive plan. Even adding 300 parking spots doesn't bring their parking capacity to the level that Stowe's own analysis says they need (they have 2704 spots currently, and estimate that on peak days they need 3163 spots)
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27,064
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
Personally, I don't see the town budging much on the parking issue. Vail honestly should just go with reservations and online purchases only for non-passholders. It worked great this winter at the NH mountains that used this strategy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Edd

ss20

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
3,641
Points
113
Location
A minute from the Alta exit off the I-15!
I would put this on the list just after they replace Castlerock at Sugarbush with a HS Quad and just before they break ground on Mad River's replacement for the single chair... Plus, grades are too steep, it is scenic/historic, and it plays host to a wide variety of activities in the winter that don't involve cars. VAST snowmobile trail, hiking trail, backcountry skiing and access, ice climbing access, etc.

lol.

I haven't actually been through the notch in the summer. Is it more "extreme" by Northeast standards than Route 17 up/over MRG?
 

KustyTheKlown

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
4,093
Points
113
Location
Brooklyn
lol.

I haven't actually been through the notch in the summer. Is it more "extreme" by Northeast standards than Route 17 up/over MRG?
its different. app gap is a mountain pass with switchbacks that goes OVER. 108 is much more flat and goes THRU. 108 is curvy and narrow such that big rigs can get stuck. its not treacherous the way app gap is. in my opinion.
 

cdskier

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Messages
5,327
Points
113
Location
NJ
lol.

I haven't actually been through the notch in the summer. Is it more "extreme" by Northeast standards than Route 17 up/over MRG?

I was wondering if you had ever driven through the notch when you made that suggestion. Definitely much narrower than the app gap. Relatively flat, but some very tight turns (as in 2 cars in opposite directions navigating the turns at the same time can be an issue).

1650391110509.png

Also, even if we ignore the fact that the notch is used for other activities in the winter and the fact that it isn't conducive to being plowed...what makes anyone think this would actually result in decreased traffic? It isn't a 1-way road. If it were open, there's presumably some people coming from the south that would suddenly think they could use it to go to Smuggs instead of going around. So you'll divert some Stowe traffic through the notch instead of around and up the mountain road, but instead you'll add some Smuggs traffic going up the mountain road and through the notch in the other direction. Not saying it would be an even swap, but it would likely offset any benefit by at least some degree.
 

Kingslug20

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Messages
1,376
Points
113
Stowe just needs more parking..the cars are going to come regardless..need a place to put them..that is all..
And spending 20 bucks is not going to deter them...cost of a friggin cheese burger..
 

Teleskier

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
154
Points
18
Location
Boston, MA
How many times have members here recently - and REPEATEDLY in a PUBLIC forum - said:

“Stowe - Please make skiing expensive again!”

“Guys - I get around parking, every day, by getting there an hour early and leaving an hour early.”

Vail listened, and they “fixed it.” They probably back of envelope'd it by "50 ski days x $30 = $1500 on top of ski pass = "More expensive than 2016 so Problem Solved."

Are you finally Happy? I'm not.
 
Last edited:

KustyTheKlown

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
4,093
Points
113
Location
Brooklyn
theres a huge difference between wanting stowe to 'make skiing expensive again' by getting off of epic and restoring their premium price season pass, vs vail selling bargain basement season passes that cause massive crowding and then nickle and diming people to jack revenue under the guise of addressing crowding. give me a fucking break with that shit.
 

Kingslug20

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Messages
1,376
Points
113
At least its only fri thru sun...
Now if that doesnt work..then what? 7 days a week..I can see them doing it as they clearly have no clue what else to do.
 

Teleskier

Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2017
Messages
154
Points
18
Location
Boston, MA
theres a huge difference between wanting stowe to 'make skiing expensive again' by getting off of epic and restoring their premium price season pass, vs vail selling bargain basement season passes that cause massive crowding and then nickle and diming people to jack revenue under the guise of addressing crowding. give me a fucking break with that shit.
Like it wasn't obvious to everyone that this would be the most likely route they'd take?

Yes - Vail is following the Royal Caribbean model. An artificially Super Cheap trip at booking time, and then nickel and dime everyone with $20 coffees and $30 cocktails onboard to make it all (and more) up on the back end.
 
Top