Sugarloaf Lift Accident - 3/21/15

[Nick]

I've got to dig through this entire thread to get the update. I haven't followed on this since it first happened. Really a bummer for sugarloaf. I always think things like this would never happen and then they do.

 

[catskills]

SL - Two bad lift failures are due to bad luck, bad maintenance decissions, or both. I am going with good chance bad maintenance decissions had something to do with these lift failures. I personally will not be skiing SL. Sorry SL. As for the other ski areas you best not end up like SL.

 

[thetrailboss]

I love Sugarloaf, but have to agree that two very bad lift accidents in a few years is NOT a good thing. I can't really think of many other places (if any) that have this record. Sugarbush has had a lot of lift issues in the last few years, but none like this.

 

[wa-loaf]

I've got to dig through this entire thread to get the update. I haven't followed on this since it first happened. Really a bummer for sugarloaf. I always think things like this would never happen and then they do.

Maybe we can negotiate a better price on next years summit?

 

[deadheadskier]

I love Sugarloaf, but have to agree that two very bad lift accidents in a few years is NOT a good thing. I can't really think of many other places (if any) that have this record. Sugarbush has had a lot of lift issues in the last few years, but none like this.

Whistler had a few really bad lift problems 2008-2009. The Gondola collapse and some grip issues I believe on other chairs.

 

[ScottySkis]

Maybe we can negotiate a better price on next years summit?

Or move it .

 

[Newpylong]

Whistler had a few really bad lift problems 2008-2009. The Gondola collapse and some grip issues I believe on other chairs.

13 years apart

1995 Quicksilver YAN grip failure = a manufacturer design issue

2008 Excalibur gondola tower failure = a manufacturer design issue

 

[deadheadskier]

Harmony express had a grip failure in 2009 resulting in a chair falling from the line overnight.

 

[Newpylong]

I didn't know that thanks. That one looked to be a bolt failure and there there a couple more similar failures at Whistler too, luckily all without injury.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah. Whistler has been lucky and dodged a few bullets and avoided injuries.

I bring the issues Whistler had up because some are saying how cheap or incompetent Sugarloaf is to have these two accidents these past five years and that they will no longer ski there. Well, the busiest ski resort in North America and I assume one of the richest has had problems too. These accidents can happen anywhere.

 

[Cannonball]

Harmony express had a grip failure in 2009 resulting in a chair falling from the line overnight.

Yikes! Got to be one of the highest lifts I've ever ridden. How far did it fall?

 

[deadheadskier]

Not sure. A groomer found it in the middle of the night

 

[skiMEbike]

Pulled this from Sugarloaf chat.....A response from Ethan over the chatter (or lack of chatter) on the future of King Pine...What I find encouraging with the response is they are not even considering leaving the area void of a lift for next season. A lot of people are "demanding" answers on the future of KP, however everyone needs to sit tight while options are considered. IMO this is a complex scenario with some major factors impacting the solution: pending sale of CNL, CNL sale in relation to the potential capital outlay, new GM at Loaf less than 3 weeks ago, and not to mention the ongoing fact finding from the accident. Again I appreciate how the Loaf has been handling this to date.


From Ethan:
"There is every intention to have an operating lift in the King Pine area next season. Whether that is a completely new lift or a rebuild of the existing lift is what is undetermined. Leaving that area without an operating lift next year has never been discussed as an option. I assure you that as soon as we have that information to share, you guys will be among the very first to know."

 

[doublediamond]

IMHO, the value of the resort with a new lift installed will be far more than the current value + the cost of a new lift. CNL should just pony up and buy a new detachable quad.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm not sure I agree with that. Comparing the sales of a ski areas is never apples to apples, but take Wildcat as an example. Peaks bought it for I believe $5M. Their summit HSQ would cost at least $7-8M to replace today. Wildcat would not sell for $12M with a new lift.

Similarly I doubt CNL would recoup the like $5M cost of a new King Pine lift in the sale price.

 

[doublediamond]

Their HSQ was 13 years old when Peaks purchased. The cost of the Wildcat Express was more on the order of $2.5-3M, they had a limited snowmaking system, and it's my understanding that Bobcat and Snowcat aren't in the best of shapes. Just the operating lease and assets were purchased. Those assets have significantly depreciated over the years. There's no real estate associated with Wildcat (for the ski area).

My thoughts on SL: there is a significant bad-will hit on the value of the resort. Simply getting rid of the current King Pine removes a significant amount of that. Whether or not you agree or if it's true, in the eyes of John Q. Public, no matter how much you refurbish King Pine, it is a dangerous lift. It's a great PR move to put in a new HSQ or FGQ, you'd get good return on that investment.

Plus, even if you don't get that full investment back on the sale price, the installation will lubricate the sale. No one will want to touch SL with a 39.5-foot pole as SL is today.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm aware of how old the Wildcat lift is, that's why I brought up a new replacement.

If that doesn't work for you because there's no real estate involved, Ragged would be the most recent lift upgrade example with real estate. They spent $5M on Spear. I don't think that increases the value by $5M.

It does need to be replaced no doubt, but if I'm CNL, I'm leaving that expense to the buyer.

 

[ironhippy]

It does need to be replaced no doubt, but if I'm CNL, I'm leaving that expense to the buyer.

which comes full circle, because buyers don't want to buy knowing they have to spend 5 million to replace a lift...

 

[deadheadskier]

The way I look at it, when you go to sell your house, you don't do a 25k kitchen renovation. You spend a few hundred on paint to clean things up.

Why? Because it's a big gamble if you get the money back.

With a five million dollar lift you have to go through the financing process which is a pain in the ass and its a huge gamble.

Personally I don't think that many folks would avoid the lift if it's fixed. I know I'd ride it. Whistler didn't replace the lifts they had issues with

 

[doublediamond]

The way I look at it, when you go to sell your house, you don't do a 25k kitchen renovation. You spend a few hundred on paint to clean things up.

Why? Because it's a big gamble if you get the money back.

With a five million dollar lift you have to go through the financing process which is a pain in the ass and its a huge gamble.

Personally I don't think that many folks would avoid the lift if it's fixed. I know I'd ride it. Whistler didn't replace the lifts they had issues with

Oh but many do. A $25k kitchen investment is worth something like an additional $50-75k to the value of the house. A lot of kitchens are redone just before putting a house on the market. It's not a gamble, but a quick money maker.