Tahoe wildfire

[deadheadskier]

Maybe, but it’s going to be very expensive

Not if Vail has anything to say about it! It's dirt cheap now at Vail resorts

 

[machski]

Maybe, but it’s going to be very expensive

I think many overestimate this. A lot of the climate model projections we get are for worst case CO2 emissions which at this point is all but impossible to reach. Mid tier emissions is the far more likely of the model levels used and that, combined with it's uncertainty %, may not be huge shifts.

Look, Sugar NC has invested a ton in recent years on it's ski infrastructure. Doubt they did that with cash alone, so apparently the banks don't agree with you if they think NC will still be skiing over the next 20+ years (I would assume that is the expected life expectancy of a brand new HSS). Add to that Timberline coming back to life in WV with all new lifts, many don't see what you are.

 

[raisingarizona]

I think many overestimate this. A lot of the climate model projections we get are for worst case CO2 emissions which at this point is all but impossible to reach. Mid tier emissions is the far more likely of the model levels used and that, combined with it's uncertainty %, may not be huge shifts.

Look, Sugar NC has invested a ton in recent years on it's ski infrastructure. Doubt they did that with cash alone, so apparently the banks don't agree with you if they think NC will still be skiing over the next 20+ years (I would assume that is the expected life expectancy of a brand new HSS). Add to that Timberline coming back to life in WV with all new lifts, many don't see what you are.

Most people don’t want to see it.

 

[ss20]

I live in CT where they've been skiing the ski industry will be wiped out 25 years from now for the past 40 years.

I haven't seen any indication of the season shrinking around here... heck Mohawk has opened in November a few years and made it to April a few years as well in the past decade.

Climate change simply means the climate will be more inconsistent. More heat in the atmosphere=more energy=more "severe" weather. The amazing winters will be more amazing and the bad winters will be more horrific.

 

[raisingarizona]

I live in CT where they've been skiing the ski industry will be wiped out 25 years from now for the past 40 years.

I haven't seen any indication of the season shrinking around here... heck Mohawk has opened in November a few years and made it to April a few years as well in the past decade.

Climate change simply means the climate will be more inconsistent. More heat in the atmosphere=more energy=more "severe" weather. The amazing winters will be more amazing and the bad winters will be more horrific.

Which will likely create a much more unstable environment for running a ski area in. It will force most operations to close increasing the demand and costs for the few places still standing. At that point only the most wealthy people will be able to afford it.

again, it’s easy to deny the climate change reality right now if you are living in the east. We are at ground zero here in the south west and it’s frighteningly apparent where things are headed. The east coast is a going to be a little slower to see the effects but it’s coming.

 

[ThatGuy]

again, it’s easy to deny the climate change reality right now if you are living in the east. We are at ground zero here in the south west and it’s frighteningly apparent where things are headed. The east coast is a going to be a little slower to see the effects but it’s coming.

Its easy to underestimate or deflect things that are uncomfortable truths, just look at how people rationalize everything going on with Covid. For most the threat of something intangible like climate change is just another problem for further on up the road. Its hard to grasp the idea that vast areas with large populations could become uninhabitable in the near future or the fact that the largest agricultural production areas in this country are basically located in deserts. Just look at images of how far the ground has receded in Californias valleys for an idea of the desiccation of Earth taking place.

 

[raisingarizona]

Its easy to underestimate or deflect things that are uncomfortable truths, just look at how people rationalize everything going on with Covid. For most the threat of something intangible like climate change is just another problem for further on up the road. Its hard to grasp the idea that vast areas with large populations could become uninhabitable in the near future or the fact that the largest agricultural production areas in this country are basically located in deserts. Just look at images of how far the ground has receded in Californias valleys for an idea of the desiccation of Earth taking place.
View attachment 51902

True that. I can’t not see it living here.

 

[raisingarizona]

Its easy to underestimate or deflect things that are uncomfortable truths, just look at how people rationalize everything going on with Covid. For most the threat of something intangible like climate change is just another problem for further on up the road. Its hard to grasp the idea that vast areas with large populations could become uninhabitable in the near future or the fact that the largest agricultural production areas in this country are basically located in deserts. Just look at images of how far the ground has receded in Californias valleys for an idea of the desiccation of Earth taking place.
View attachment 51902

Our brains just aren’t very good at looking beyond the right now.

Even if the actual weather seems fairly normal for a handful more years in the north east everyone is going to feel it when we start rationing the water out here.

 

[machski]

Its easy to underestimate or deflect things that are uncomfortable truths, just look at how people rationalize everything going on with Covid. For most the threat of something intangible like climate change is just another problem for further on up the road. Its hard to grasp the idea that vast areas with large populations could become uninhabitable in the near future or the fact that the largest agricultural production areas in this country are basically located in deserts. Just look at images of how far the ground has receded in Californias valleys for an idea of the desiccation of Earth taking place.
View attachment 51902

Sure, let's use California for that example. Oh wait, the entire southern half of the state is on unstable and shifting tectonic plates (you've heard of Earthquakes I take it?). But yeah, let's take a geologically unstable location and blame shifting Earth on climate change. Nice try on that one, next time pick something you can isolate variables better on.

Look, the climate is changing, the planet has never had a universally level climate in it's history. We are in a warming period, human influences aside. Yes we are adding carbon into the atmosphere from our activities outside the normal carbon exchange (fossil fuel burning puts carbon that wouldn't enter the atmospheric cycle into it). But doubling the CO2 concentrations of the atmosphere from today's levels would only raise global average temps by 3C when taken in account by itself (IE some human activity actually works to COOL the atmosphere as well, so whether a 3C potential gain from doubling CO2 would be fully realized is uncertain). Now that type of temp change will have differing impacts on differing regions. But climate models aren't anywhere near am exact science, so it's difficult to say what things would actually look like. A lot of the doomsday scenarios floating out there are based on a CO2 atmospheric concentration that is all but unobtainable now given even the modest progress we as species have made moving away from fossil fuels.

That is the uncertainty of this. That doesn't mean continuing to shift away from fossil fuel sources shouldn't continue. There are a ton of reasons why that is good beyond just a climate change position.

 

[ThatGuy]

Sure, let's use California for that example. Oh wait, the entire southern half of the state is on unstable and shifting tectonic plates (you've heard of Earthquakes I take it?). But yeah, let's take a geologically unstable location and blame shifting Earth on climate change. Nice try on that one, next time pick something you can isolate variables better on.

That land has sunk due to water being pulled from aquifers not earthquakes. Also obviously I’ve heard of earthquakes and know California lies on multiple fault lines but if anything that just proves my point that people will ignore reality and move in droves to places they see as idyllic. Also climate change doesn’t have to be anthropogenic so fossil fuels and CO2 aren’t the end all be all of it. No one knows whats going to happen to the planet in the future but human caused or not the things occurring currently don’t bode well.

 

[ThatGuy]

We can look at the same thing in the midwest where the “variables are more isolated”.

Crisis on the High Plains: The Loss of America’s Largest Aquifer – the Ogallala | University of Denver Water Law Review at the Sturm College of Law

The grain-growing region in the High Plains of America—known as America’s breadbasket—relies entirely on the Ogallala Aquifer. But long term unsustainable use of the aquifer is forcing states in the region to face the prospect of a regional economic disaster. As the High Plains states reach the...

duwaterlawreview.com

Or Arizona, where we lease our land to Saudi alfalfa farmers.

These 7 industrial farm operations are draining Arizona's aquifers, and no one knows exactly how much they're taking

Investment funds and out-of-state companies have bought giant farms in the state. They're drilling deep wells to follow the water as aquifers decline.

www.google.com

 

[JimG.]

My main concern occurs when humans take it upon themselves to "fix" things like the climate.

 

[ThatGuy]

My main concern occurs when humans take it upon themselves to "fix" things like the climate.

I agree, how does one “fix” the climate anyway seeing as how throughout history there have been many different average temps and CO2 levels. Historically the Earth has been never been truly stable.

Younger Dryas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[raisingarizona]

My main concern occurs when humans take it upon themselves to "fix" things like the climate.

Scary indeed.

 

[machski]

That land has sunk due to water being pulled from aquifers not earthquakes. Also obviously I’ve heard of earthquakes and know California lies on multiple fault lines but if anything that just proves my point that people will ignore reality and move in droves to places they see as idyllic. Also climate change doesn’t have to be anthropogenic so fossil fuels and CO2 aren’t the end all be all of it. No one knows whats going to happen to the planet in the future but human caused or not the things occurring currently don’t bode well.

Very true, but it is something humans can try to minimize and move away from going forward. As I said there are many good reasons to move away, not the least being the are a finite resource, tend to be price volatile and are dirty energy sources regardless when the entire production line is considered. Of course, we need balanced, sustainable energy moving forward to replace fossils, and while we have nice additive sources now, nothing that can solely supplant the dinos yet.

 

[skimagic]

My main concern occurs when humans take it upon themselves to "fix" things like the climate.

My main concern occurs when humans take it upon themselves to "change" things like the climate.

 

[Hawk]

I have moved from understanding the gravity of the situation with climate change and wanting to do something about it, to not caring anymore. There are way to many people in this world that couldn't care less. Some out of ignorance, some out of greed, some that can't be inconvienced, some that do not have the fiancial means to change directions. So knowing fully well that a few good people with very good intentions will never really do anything in time to make a difference, I have given up the fight. I only have 30 to 40 years left on the planet at best, no kids and have no more energy to fight the good fight. I will live out my years knowing that they were the good ones compared to what is coming. We as race will damage this planet for our future generations and there is nothing that will stop it. It's a lost cause. Just glad I won't be here to see the worst of it. How is that for a good dose of reality for this fine September day.

 

[JimG.]

I feel like Hawk does.

I say "A" and someone else will say "B". Or "C" or "D" and so on. Everyone has an agenda.

Mine is to ski and fish as much as possible in the next 30 years. Or Yellowstone may erupt and end the conversation permanently.

 

[jimmywilson69]

It's a lost cause. Just glad I won't be here to see the worst of it. How is that for a good dose of reality for this fine September day.

 

[p_levert]

Just an FYI - but those cams are old feeds from 8/29/21.

Cams at Sierra at Tahoe are working again: https://www.sierraattahoe.com/live-cams/

Fortunately, there's quite a few trees left intact, yeah!