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Tahoe wildfire

dblskifanatic

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I have moved from understanding the gravity of the situation with climate change and wanting to do something about it, to not caring anymore. There are way to many people in this world that couldn't care less. Some out of ignorance, some out of greed, some that can't be inconvienced, some that do not have the fiancial means to change directions. So knowing fully well that a few good people with very good intentions will never really do anything in time to make a difference, I have given up the fight. I only have 30 to 40 years left on the planet at best, no kids and have no more energy to fight the good fight. I will live out my years knowing that they were the good ones compared to what is coming. We as race will damage this planet for our future generations and there is nothing that will stop it. It's a lost cause. Just glad I won't be here to see the worst of it. How is that for a good dose of reality for this fine September day.

Climate Change is a multi faceted issue and not one that is man made alone. This earth has cooled and heated in cycle for millions of years due to significant geological or extraterrestrial events - which by the way could happen again today.

Considering the human side of things - there are many celebrities and politicians that want us common folk to change our ways. Yet they drive big cars, own big homes, take big trips and spend a lot of money of produce that are martially or wholly made of petroleum products. Even their ideas for fixing some of the issues have economic impacts that do not effect them of or even most down to the middle class. The lower class or poor are impacted by that.

If our leaders do not set the example to live by and continue to live lavishly then how do people take them seriously.
 

BenedictGomez

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Skiing in the north east 50 years from now may still be possible on a few extremely expensive hills on man made snow for a month or two every few years, or that’s where it seems it’s headed.

Flipping ridiculous.

Even if you go with the newest IPCC scaremongerer report*, the increase in temps will be something like 1 to 6 degrees in 50 years. The lower bound of that you wouldnt even notice a difference. The upper bound of that would have an impact, but even in the Poconos they'll be skiing on 100% terrain in 2071.

*NOTE: This requires the employment of Willing Suspension of Disbelief given how poorly their past projections have faired to the downside.
 
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BenedictGomez

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Maybe, but it’s going to be very expensive

At the Federal Reserves targeted 2% inflation rate held at steady-state, a $75 single day ticket in 2021 will cost you $202 in 2071. There's something to worry about; hopefully wage inflation keeps pace.
 
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BenedictGomez

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I think many overestimate this. A lot of the climate model projections we get are for worst case CO2 emissions which at this point is all but impossible to reach. Mid tier emissions is the far more likely of the model levels used and that, combined with it's uncertainty %, may not be huge shifts.

Solid State Batteries are going to massively reduce CO2 globally upon adoption & especially when their costs (like all technology) comes down. Virtually 100% of automobiles will be 100% electric by 2035. Invest now.
 
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BenedictGomez

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Messages
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I have moved from understanding the gravity of the situation with climate change and wanting to do something about it, to not caring anymore. There are way to many people in this world that couldn't care less. Some out of ignorance, some out of greed, some that can't be inconvienced, some that do not have the fiancial means to change directions. So knowing fully well that a few good people with very good intentions will never really do anything in time to make a difference, I have given up the fight. I only have 30 to 40 years left on the planet at best, no kids and have no more energy to fight the good fight. I will live out my years knowing that they were the good ones compared to what is coming. We as race will damage this planet for our future generations and there is nothing that will stop it. It's a lost cause. Just glad I won't be here to see the worst of it. How is that for a good dose of reality for this fine September day.

More succinctly, the "we must move mountains & ban straws" crowd never has a mathematical answer for China & India addressing anything approaching statistically necessary relevance to be taken seriously. They also rather ironically tend to be 100% against nuclear power too, which is another matter altogether.
 

machski

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Solid State Batteries are going to massively reduce CO2 globally upon adoption & especially when their costs (like all technology) comes down. Virtually 100% of automobiles will be 100% electric by 2035. Invest now.
I agree personal autos are fast moving towards all electric. This alone doesn't guarantee anything in regards to reducing carbon emissions, it just shifts where those emissions come from. I hope you are not also trying to tell me the US power grid is prepared to shift the hundreds of millions of gas fueled personal autos to electrical charged ones. We have brown out concerns now on certain peak demand days, just imagine what will happen when everyone has to plug their vehicles in too. No new nuke facilities being built to come online, the only quick and easy way to add power production is traditional power plants. Many likely would be natural gas or even wood chip plants, but still. Not clean.
 

Hawk

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Climate Change is a multi faceted issue and not one that is man made alone. This earth has cooled and heated in cycle for millions of years due to significant geological or extraterrestrial events - which by the way could happen again today.

Considering the human side of things - there are many celebrities and politicians that want us common folk to change our ways. Yet they drive big cars, own big homes, take big trips and spend a lot of money of produce that are martially or wholly made of petroleum products. Even their ideas for fixing some of the issues have economic impacts that do not effect them of or even most down to the middle class. The lower class or poor are impacted by that.

If our leaders do not set the example to live by and continue to live lavishly then how do people take them seriously.
Climate change has happened in the past. That has been documented by borings in glaciers and by other scientific means. But in those earlier cases the change was over a thousand years or even more. This most recent up tick in temps has occured in less that 100 years and directly corelates to the industrial revolution and the use of focil fuels. It is documented that amount of shit we are putting into the atmosphere is by far greater than any other time on the planet. I mean on top of the wood, gas, coal and other things we burn, chloroflurocarbon and other gases we produce were never part of the equation 100,000 years ago. You don't think that the rapid rise this time over such a short duration is not solely the responcibility of man?
 

deadheadskier

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More succinctly, the "we must move mountains & ban straws" crowd never has a mathematical answer for China & India addressing anything approaching statistically necessary relevance to be taken seriously. They also rather ironically tend to be 100% against nuclear power too, which is another matter altogether.

Not a fan of the but, but, but China and India argument. That's like when I tell my kids don't do something and they say, but such and such a friend does it! What others do, I / we have little control over.

But I'm also the furthest thing from a tree hugger. I mean I do support renewables, just as long as it doesn't have anything to do with fun stuff in life. Haha. I'd pay a little bit more if the option presented itself to power my home with renewables as an example. But I have no interest in electric cars because they don't make em with three pedals. I spend all weekend during the summer driving a boat with a big ole V8 that gets 2 mpg at best. I ski on weekends, which in the Northeast is certainly a big "carbon footprint" FU.

I certainly don't worry about my kids future from an environmental perspective.
 

machski

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Climate change has happened in the past. That has been documented by borings in glaciers and by other scientific means. But in those earlier cases the change was over a thousand years or even more. This most recent up tick in temps has occured in less that 100 years and directly corelates to the industrial revolution and the use of focil fuels. It is documented that amount of shit we are putting into the atmosphere is by far greater than any other time on the planet. I mean on top of the wood, gas, coal and other things we burn, chloroflurocarbon and other gases we produce were never part of the equation 100,000 years ago. You don't think that the rapid rise this time over such a short duration is not solely the responcibility of man?
Be careful lumping all the "shit" we are tossing into the atmosphere together Hawk. It is definitely all shit that is not natural, but it all does not affect the climate the same. Chlorofluorocarbons and other aerosols actually increase the Earth's albido rate, reflecting more of the solar energy before it has a chance to heat the planet/atmosphere. That crap actually helps to negate warming. That said, I'm sure there are several dozen other reason not to start dumping a ton of it into the atmosphere.
 

kancamagus

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Jan 12, 2019
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More succinctly, the "we must move mountains & ban straws" crowd never has a mathematical answer for China & India addressing anything approaching statistically necessary relevance to be taken seriously. They also rather ironically tend to be 100% against nuclear power too, which is another matter altogether.
The best overall solution I’ve seen is Carbon Tax & Dividend program. Tax CO2/other greenhouse gases at a fixed rate per ton when they created, whether it is at a oil wellhead in the US or high import tariffs directly related to CO2 generated from petroleum-based Chinesium imported goods. These costs would then be passed onto customers. So goods or activities that have a high environmental footprint will cost a lot more.

But before you pull out your pitchforks over things getting more expensive, we have the second part of this program: the Dividend part.

For the Dividend part, you take 100% of the tax revenue, and simply divide it EQUALLY by the number of taxpayers+dependents, and then send them a monthly Andrew Yang style reimbursement check / direct deposit. So if you are completely average, Carbon Tax & Dividend costs you zero extra dollars. if you are poor and working class, you likely have a much smaller carbon footprint from living in an apartment and taking public transit most places, so they would actually financially benefit from getting a larger monthly Dividend than the amount extra they paid for goods. If you are rich and take a private jet everywhere, this will cost you a lot of money for that privilege, as your carbon footprint would be significantly above average.

But the simple genius part of this, is it solves human caused greenhouse gas emissions without any other nanny state regulations like the need for specific laws or bans. Average working or middle class folks would see that the sticker price of most sustainable goods would then be cheaper than non sustainable goods, and would likely simply choose the climate friendly ones of their own volition. Would people decide they want a straw if they were billed 50 cents for it? Or would they decide, nah, I can drink out of the cup just fine? Either way, theyd have the freedom to choose.

And since a lot of working and middle class folks would likely want to pinch pennies, they will all volunteerily choose of their own volition to try to find ways to spend less on products or services that contain greenhouse gas emissions than they get from their monthly Dividend. They would financially want to have a lower than average carbon footprint to try to profit off the system, in whatever way they think works best for their own interests.

seems like an overall win win.

Also, we might have to accept that with nuclear fission, even with the technological improvements in the more intrinsically safe fourth generation reactors, we may be past the point where we can repair PR. “3.6 roentgens? Not great, not terrible” does not help the public’s average perception. With the pending ITER and planned DEMO reactors, on the nuclear front we may have to punt on fission and now just go all in on fusion.
 

BenedictGomez

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I agree personal autos are fast moving towards all electric. This alone doesn't guarantee anything in regards to reducing carbon emissions, it just shifts where those emissions come from. I hope you are not also trying to tell me the US power grid is prepared to shift the hundreds of millions of gas fueled personal autos to electrical charged ones.

This has been studied to the nth degree. Electric cars initially are more carbon using from production to a few years of use, but once that bogey is hit they're less carbon-intensive than ICE vehicles for the bulk of their lifespan. As for the power grid, yes, I do think it will be completely fine. This isnt happening next month on October 15th, it's going to be a ~15+ year slow transition during which major infrastructure improvements will be incentivized & made.
 
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BenedictGomez

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Not a fan of the but, but, but China and India argument. That's like when I tell my kids don't do something and they say, but such and such a friend does it! What others do, I / we have little control over.

The point I'm making is not the moralistic readout you're taking from it, the point I'm making is that it's a complete & total fool's errand to begin with from a mathematical standpoint if China & India have no intention of altering course.
 

deadheadskier

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The point I'm making is not the moralistic readout you're taking from it, the point I'm making is that it's a complete & total fool's errand to begin with from a mathematical standpoint if China & India have no intention of altering course.

We all get the latter. My initial analogy and point still applies. Don't let the bad behavior of others influence personal/national policy
 

mbedle

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Solid State Batteries are going to massively reduce CO2 globally upon adoption & especially when their costs (like all technology) comes down. Virtually 100% of automobiles will be 100% electric by 2035. Invest now.
Are you saying that virtually 100% of automobiles made in 2035 will be electric, or virtually 100% of automobiles on roads will be electric by 2035?
 

tumbler

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It's the charging time that gets me. I can fill up with gas in 5 minutes and go but have to sit for an hour at an electric charging station. These will be the new sketchy truck stops in the future...;)
 

Hawk

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Be careful lumping all the "shit" we are tossing into the atmosphere together Hawk. It is definitely all shit that is not natural, but it all does not affect the climate the same. Chlorofluorocarbons and other aerosols actually increase the Earth's albido rate, reflecting more of the solar energy before it has a chance to heat the planet/atmosphere. That crap actually helps to negate warming. That said, I'm sure there are several dozen other reason not to start dumping a ton of it into the atmosphere.
Mach, I am very aware of what chlorofluorocarbons and hydrochlorofluorocarbons are and what they do to our atmosphere. It is my understanding that they destroy the earth's protective ozone layer. But CFCs and HCFCs also warm the lower atmosphere of the earth, changing global climate also. The point is that it is a man made issue along with focil fules.
 

Edd

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I drive a hybrid and love it. It’s hard to imagine infrastructure being in place to support full electric vehicles in less than 15 years. All the city dwellers and others who rent will be at the mercy of wherever they park to have charging stations. That’s not happening so soon. Hybrids will need to be part of the equation for at least 20 years I’d speculate.
 

machski

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Mach, I am very aware of what chlorofluorocarbons and hydrochlorofluorocarbons are and what they do to our atmosphere. It is my understanding that they destroy the earth's protective ozone layer. But CFCs and HCFCs also warm the lower atmosphere of the earth, changing global climate also. The point is that it is a man made issue along with focil fules.
Yes, but many of these have already been reduced, unlike fossil production. I don't hear much about the Ozone layer in the news anymore...ahh, that's right, it's not getting worse. It's actually slowly improving. The Northern Hole doesn't exist anymore (NASA still tracks Artic ozone thinning, but no hole anymore) and the Antarctic, while an actually hole still forma for several summer months still, the area and measured amount of residual Ozone have been shrinking and increasing for each correspondingly since mid 2000's. (https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/NH.html)
Hopefully these trends continue, but sounds like Hans have at least fixed/are fixing one thing we likely caused.
 

BenedictGomez

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Are you saying that virtually 100% of automobiles made in 2035 will be electric, or virtually 100% of automobiles on roads will be electric by 2035?

In the developed world, made. In poorer countries I'll doubt penetration will be anywhere near 100%, but there too strides will be made.
 
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