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Tahoe wildfire

BenedictGomez

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It's the charging time that gets me. I can fill up with gas in 5 minutes and go but have to sit for an hour at an electric charging station. These will be the new sketchy truck stops in the future...;)

That will improve quickly too. Even today, Lucid can charge 300 miles in 20 minutes, and Tesla's best isnt far behind.

But when you're charging at home every night you wake up with a fully charged car each morning. In a few years electric vehicles will likely all be >=350 miles of range. Lucid's top offering can do >500 miles on a single charge today. Tesla about 400 miles. Many others will best 300 miles. How often out of 365 days a year are you going more than 300 miles per day?
 
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BenedictGomez

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I drive a hybrid and love it. It’s hard to imagine infrastructure being in place to support full electric vehicles in less than 15 years. All the city dwellers and others who rent will be at the mercy of wherever they park to have charging stations. That’s not happening so soon. Hybrids will need to be part of the equation for at least 20 years I’d speculate.

If your car can do 500 miles on a single charge, why do we need thousands of charging stations all over the place? I think this is the single detail that most people arent forward-thinking about correctly, because they're envisoning tomorrow's world with their eyes today. Battery technology has come farther in the last 2 or 3 years than anyone imagined, and it's going to continue. By 2024 - 2030 (depending on which expert you believe) we should have legitimate SSB batteries. Needless to say, long-term I'm very bearish on all these charging companies going public in 2021.
 

icecoast1

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If your car can do 500 miles on a single charge, why do we need thousands of charging stations all over the place? I think this is the single detail that most people arent forward-thinking about correctly, because they're envisoning tomorrow's world with their eyes today.
You'll need a vast network of charging stations around if you plan on getting the trucking industry to accept this technology, since it looks like they're in the early stages of hopping on this bandwagon too
 

jimmywilson69

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I'm sure someone smarter than me has entertained this idea, but trucks pull a 53' long solar bed behind them. I've got to think that if you are pulling a solar array that you'd be able to charge while moving. maybe not enough to never need to plug in, but surely to extend the range.

Also there is technology currently in development for charging while driving by putting charging equipment in the highways. obviously that's a serious infrastructure update, but perhaps it could be a tolled system that you could choose to use.
 

ss20

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That will improve quickly too. Even today, Lucid can charge 300 miles in 20 minutes, and Tesla's best isnt far behind.

But when you're charging at home every night you wake up with a fully charged car each morning. In a few years electric vehicles will likely all be >=350 miles of range. Lucid's top offering can do >500 miles on a single charge today. Tesla about 400 miles. Many others will best 300 miles. How often out of 365 days a year are you going more than 300 miles per day?

It's still not nearly enough to me. I do maybe a dozen daytrips a year that are over 300 miles roundtrip. I get it though...EV's are great on paper. But you're not going to get even close to the full range when the ambient temperature is 15 degrees and you're doing 80mph on the ups/downs of 91/89. Also range is increasing and battery lifespan is increasing...but you're still only going to get 75% of your capacity after 10 years and 100,000 miles (under super ideal circumstances). So now you're supposed 400 mile range is 300 miles. And I mention ideal circumstances....fast charging these batteries wreaks total havoc on them.

I still suspect I'll be driving an ICE in 2030. I will say though I think plug-in hybrids with extended EV ranges are the way to go. Give me one with a 50 miles range of EV mode for commuting back/fourth to work and a big ole' 'Merican gas tank for long trips. To me that's the best of both worlds.
 

urungus

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range is increasing and battery lifespan is increasing...but you're still only going to get 75% of your capacity after 10 years and 100,000 miles (under super ideal circumstances). So now you're supposed 400 mile range is 300 miles.

 

ss20

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lol

The target set for the upcoming Toyota bZ4X and following BEVs is 90% of initial battery capacity (and range) maintained over 10 years of usage.

In other words, a car that has 500 km (311 miles) of range when new, should still have 450 km (280 miles) of range after 10 years. Of course, we assume that it could be less if the user would exceed the typical mileage or fast charging usage (Toyota does not reveal info about that).

Anyway, the target is very good and consistent with Toyota's focus on the reliability of cars.

The currently available Toyota BEVs in China (C-HR and IZOA) had a target of about 75-80%, while the plug-in hybrid Priuses appear to be at about 50-55% (the first generation) and at about 60-65% (the second generation). At least that is what we see on the chart.

And it currently is at the 75% threshold I mentioned. My thing is you can't argue that the batteries will retain their near-full charge AND that you'll soon be able to go 300 miles on a relatively quick 20 minute charge. You can have one of those things but you can't have both.

I admit EV's are becoming more viable, and I can see myself getting one by the end of the decade. But the tech isn't there now, and not in the near-future.
 

mbedle

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I'm sure someone smarter than me has entertained this idea, but trucks pull a 53' long solar bed behind them. I've got to think that if you are pulling a solar array that you'd be able to charge while moving. maybe not enough to never need to plug in, but surely to extend the range.

Also there is technology currently in development for charging while driving by putting charging equipment in the highways. obviously that's a serious infrastructure update, but perhaps it could be a tolled system that you could choose to use.
Truck drivers do not typically own the trailers, but would make a great business installing them on trailers and charging a fee for truckers to use them.
 

snoseek

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They are getting the upper hand on this now. People are retuning to Tahoe. Kirkwood people were heading back today
 

ss20

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Back to being somewhat on topic...what happens to EVs in a disaster? If there's a hurricane coming to a major city and people need to evacuate our gasoline infrastructure can't keep up at the moment....and that's 5 minutes per car at each pump. Now you want to increase that time by a major factor for people to charge up.

What about electricity? I've lost power for 5 days+ in my suburban CT home on three occasions in the past 15 years. That would be a major PITA if I can't charge at home for that length of time.
 

machski

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Back to being somewhat on topic...what happens to EVs in a disaster? If there's a hurricane coming to a major city and people need to evacuate our gasoline infrastructure can't keep up at the moment....and that's 5 minutes per car at each pump. Now you want to increase that time by a major factor for people to charge up.

What about electricity? I've lost power for 5 days+ in my suburban CT home on three occasions in the past 15 years. That would be a major PITA if I can't charge at home for that length of time.
Well, get a F-150 Lightning and if you have the correct home hookup, the Truck can reverse flow and power your house when power goes out!
 

icecoast1

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What about electricity? I've lost power for 5 days+ in my suburban CT home on three occasions in the past 15 years. That would be a major PITA if I can't charge at home for that length of time.
You'll have to purchase two backup generators. One to power your house and the 2nd to charge your Tesla
 

ss20

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Well, get a F-150 Lightning and if you have the correct home hookup, the Truck can reverse flow and power your house when power goes out!

That's cool I did not know that!

I'll reiterate I'm not trying to bash EV's. They're great 98% of the time. It's the other 2% where there's still a lot of questions. If I could afford two cars I'd have a traditional ICE car and an EV.
 

machski

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That's cool I did not know that!

I'll reiterate I'm not trying to bash EV's. They're great 98% of the time. It's the other 2% where there's still a lot of questions. If I could afford two cars I'd have a traditional ICE car and an EV.
I see this being the more realistic reality for some time in the US even. Households will chose 1 full EV and 1 ICE (be it flat out ICE or hybrid) vehicle, just for the redundancy and assurance of motive transport when needed in all situations.
 

dblskifanatic

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I see this being the more realistic reality for some time in the US even. Households will chose 1 full EV and 1 ICE (be it flat out ICE or hybrid) vehicle, just for the redundancy and assurance of motive transport when needed in all situations.

ICE Bans whether you like it or not

 

machski

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ICE Bans whether you like it or not

Interesting that article tries to spin the EV's as potential backstops for California's cronically troubled grid as they could help back power during low renewable generation periods. If that's my ONLY type of vehicle I can have, pumping power OUT of my car to the grid will be a hard pass, thanks.
 

Smellytele

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Interesting that article tries to spin the EV's as potential backstops for California's cronically troubled grid as they could help back power during low renewable generation periods. If that's my ONLY type of vehicle I can have, pumping power OUT of my car to the grid will be a hard pass, thanks.
And then they would need to be recharged from the same grid.
 

machski

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And then they would need to be recharged from the same grid.
Well, exactly. How that grid run off mostly renewables could handle the charging required for committing, especially in SoCal or SF/silicon valley. Then add this. Maybe both ends get to where they need to be by 2035. But I just don't see it nor have I heard of a plan to do so.
 
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