The 2006 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge: SUGARBUSH Owner and Operator WIN SMITH!

[Powder8]

There was recently an issue a few weeks back regarding MRG being able to open on the wknd of March 18th. According to a fairly reliable source, MRG contacted a number of local ski resorts w/in northern/central VT to see if they would honor skiers with unused Mad passes or season passes at a reduced rate. I believe Bolton Valley and Jay Peak were the only areas that stepped to the table - Jay offered a reduced 29/day ticket.

The word is....MRG contacted Sugarbush, and they declined to help. This is totally believable because you share the same valley, are neigbors, and yet a MRG skier can't get a break right next door? Its not like this would have been for an extended period of time, a free deal, or taking place at peak season. I own 2 properties on the sugarbush access road, and ski at both places. Why is it that Jay Peak "gets it"...and Sugarbush doesnt seem to?

 

[smootharc]

Terrain Pod above Inverness Quad at North.....

....was a possible expansion proposed in the past. Is this still a possibility ? If not, why ?

I continue to dream....

 

[smootharc]

Outback Tours.....

....how are they being received ? I realize it was a crummy snow year to gauge the interest.

Slidebrook usage in general.....any thoughts on the future there ?

 

[thetrailboss]

OK, I think we will bring this to a close on Sunday or so. Great questions.

 

[PowderDeprived]

....was a possible expansion proposed in the past. Is this still a possibility ? If not, why ?

I continue to dream....

Yeah, Glen ellen went as far as to cut a lift path for this expansion and advertise it on trail maps. However after they cut the lift path they tried to get aproval to build the chair, and found out they didn't own the land :dunce: and the ownder didn't wan't to sell it to them, or let them use it. It would be nice if in the future sugarbush would look into purchasing this land, or possibly arrainging a land swap and building a lift, and cutting a few trails. This would promote incresed use of the inverness area, and the trails would mostly be harder intermediate trails like semi tough, and brambles , and would have great south east exposure. There are also snowmaking piplines up the inverness area, so it would be easy to add snowmaking to the terrain. I really think this terrain would crown the MT ellen area, and would add some really exceptional lift servaced terrain to Sugarbush. It is really the one expansion posiblity that makes sense the most.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

other owners

It seems that most people on these forums are unaware that there are two other owners who are involved with the management of the Bush. Adam Greshin and Bob Ackland. As you know Bob has been somewhat controversial and Adam is pretty much behind the scenes, publically.

I didn't see Bob much last winter although during the ASC days he was one of the hardest workers I knew when he was the VP of Finance and last winter when I dropped off my son at LP on the weekends Adam was always in the parking lot helping out. Doubt many people here know that Bob ran MRG between the ASC days and his joining SV and was instramental in the purchasing of the Bush from ASC.

I was thinking that people might be interested in some backgound regarding who Bob and Adam are as your partners/owners and their roles in managing the Bush.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

It seems that most people on these forums are unaware that there are two other owners who are involved with the management of the Bush. Adam Greshim(sic) and Bob Ackland. As you know Bob has been somewhat controversial and Adam is pretty much behind the scenes, publically.

I didn't see Bob much last winter although during the ASC days he was one of the hardest workers I knew when he was the VP of Finance and last winter when I dropped off my son at LP on the weekends Adam was always in the parking lot helping out. Doubt many people here know that Bob ran MRG between the ASC days and his joining SV and was instramental in the purchasing of the Bush from ASC.

I was thinking that people might be interested in some backgound regarding who Bob and Adam are as your partners/owners and their roles in managing the Bush.

What I'm interested in knowing is how your avatar came together or what is purports to show? I mean, I know what I'm looking at there, but what have you done with it? Feel fre to PM if necessary.

 

[Lostone]

OK, I think we will bring this to a close on Sunday or so. Great questions.

Why would you want to close it out so soon?

I know you are interested in the answers, but wouldn't it be better to leave it open for a little bit and get a wider scatter of questions? I would think there might be a number of other members of the Zone, who haven't seen it yet, or who've put their questions off to... go skiing for the weekend? :wink:

 

[Sky]

I was thinking that people might be interested in some backgound regarding who Bob and Adam are as your partners/owners and their roles in managing the Bush.

SRO...it's like you read my mind. I admit I've never been to SB. I remember reading the Ski Mag (or Skiing, same difference) 5? years ago and the discussion of the sale...separation from ASC, honoring of ASC season passes (as some folks bought ASC passes thinking the Bush would be included).

I was excited for SB advocates and new ownership. Ovr the years, snowmaking and lodge plans etc have come and gone and come again as topics.

I guess my question of Win et al would be...what have they come to learn over the past 5? years vs (apparently) what they already knew as staff members pre-sale...and therefore...what's the "adjusted" plan going forward.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

purchase price

First, I want to preface this by saying if you do not want to answer this question I will totally understand but thought it might be okay to at least ask.

I have been told from what I consider a reliable source that SV paid 8m for the Bush. Knowing that ASC bought it for 12m and invested over 25m in new lifts, snowmaking and a failed attempt to build a Grand Summit Hotel it would seem that SV bought the Bush at a near fire sale price. How much of a role did the price play in your decision to buy the Bush?

Building the Pitcher Inn and buying the Warren Store is one thing but buying the Bush is a whole lot bigger chunk of chew to take on? I think most in the valley would agree that all these things have had a huge positive effect on the valley and the town of Warren.

The Pitcher Inn site was a pile of burned remnents and alot of people/employees were very worried about what would become of the Warren Store after the owner passed away.

 

[Lostone]

Sky, that is an excellent question! :wink:

 

[Sky]

Sky, that is an excellent question! :wink:

Thanks pal. Something about a blind squirrel finding a nut comes to mind. I hope it get's answered. Seems like a more interesting story for Win to tell IMO.

Anyway, sorry to have never hooked up @ SB. Skiladi keeps asking when I'm going to make it. SB remians on my list...but this year I raced for the first time...and it sucked up the majority of my early departures form work...which impacted my willingness to approach the boss for mid-week adventure training.

Maybe next year.

 

[Lostone]

Well, I think you should make it a goal. :wink:

Better than taking a midweek day, extend a weekend. (You know that Monday when you're feeling kinda sickly... next December? :grin

That way you not only get Monday, but the rest of Sunday, too. As everyone gets eaten up by the lunchtime monster, you get to enjoy a weekend day where almost everyone is gone.

And if you're used to skiing Wa Wa... you won't believe how much mountain we have up here. I haven't skied there in years, but there used to be a chair that serviced only black diamond terrain. Is that still a fact? We have one of those, too. It is called Castlerock. It isn't the same!

And we have ambassadors who will tell you where to go, and mountain guides that will take you there! :lol:

Check out my MSN pic site for a small sample of shots from here. Put it high on your list. There is a lot of mountain up here!

 

[Sky]

Lostone...I think you are right. Great pics, top o the list it is.

Yes, Wa still has a quad that services the summit, which has two black trails...and one more-difficult blue (for Wa). And I'm sure SB has substantially more to offer than Wa.

I've re-drooled over the SB trail map several times over the years. I've already written off my (almost) annual trip to Okemo after this year. Nice place, but I'm ready to move on.

Cannon will remain on my annual list. Wildcat (although I didn't get there this year) will be added...and SB, SR, Loaf...and others are on the list to hit.

*sorry for hijacking the challenge folks*

 

[thetrailboss]

First, I want to preface this by saying if you do not want to answer this question I will totally understand but thought it might be okay to at least ask.

I have been told from what I consider a reliable source that SV paid 8m for the Bush. Knowing that ASC bought it for 12m and invested over 25m in new lifts, snowmaking and a failed attempt to build a Grand Summit Hotel it would seem that SV bought the Bush at a near fire sale price. How much of a role did the price play in your decision to buy the Bush?

Yes, that is what I heard for #'s as well. Les Otten poured $28 million in that one season (1995 I think). Doing some good things with that money (snowmaking at LP, two new HSQ's there, SB Express, moving triple to North Lynx, etc.) as well as some dumb things (the "snail," removing GMX 1 and moving it to North Ridge, pretty much ditching Mt Ellen, not dredging the pond deep enough). They really took a loss when they sold the place. IMHO big mistake. I'd much rather dump Attitash than SB if I were ASC. I know that SB did not fall into their "plans" or desires.

 

[PowderDeprived]

Heh, the slug. You have to be glad that summit replaced that thing. I didn't realize that the orriginal GMX became the new Northridge chair. Does anybody know where ACM got the slug? When they added the new GMX they re-used the all but 2 of the towers, Sheaves (tower tops) and chairs, cable, top and bases complete with bullwheels remain on the sides of lower snowflake.

 

[thetrailboss]

Heh, the slug. You have to be glad that summit replaced that thing. I didn't realize that the orriginal GMX became the new Northridge chair. Does anybody know where ACM got the slug?

ASC bought the slug new from Doppelmeyr I think. It is now the Metro Quad at Jay. Still some Sugarbush stickers on some of the chairs!

When they added the new GMX they re-used the all but 2 of the towers, Sheaves (tower tops) and chairs, cable, top and bases complete with bullwheels remain on the sides of lower snowflake.

Hmmm....I don't think this is true. The Snail was completely removed and taken to Jay. The towers for the new GMX are new I think...at least the majority of them are because they extend well beyond where the snail ended. Remember, the towers on Cliffs are all new.

 

[Plowboy]

The slug is now the Metro chair at Jay. Most of the lift parts at the bottom of lower snowflake are from the old northridge chair.

 

[PowderDeprived]

The quad chairs must then be old chairs off of one of the other lifts then. There is a distinct difference in the towers, right up to the base of the cliffs, with a few at the bottom that look new. I guess the fact the the Slug was from Doppelmayer rules out the possibility that they reused the towers, and that they must be new towers from Poma. Though if you look closely there is a slight difference in the towers up untill the cliffs.

And speaking of lifts, I have a question that could be added to another one or something.

I guess it is the plan to replace the Valley House Chair with a New High Speed Quad, and the Village chair with a new tripple. Does Sugarbush have a long term plan to replace or upgrade any of the many other aging lifts? In addition, is there a possibility that a magic carpet lift, might be added at North to servace novice terrain, and to replace the ancient Handle Tow. It would be nice to have a surface lift from the top of heavens gate, up the hill to what was the top of jester and organgrinder. This would eliminate the need to traverse up hill to get to jester etc... Finaly, are there any long term plans for the Slide Brook Express. As this chair becomes older and more expensive to run, It seems Sugarbush tends to want to run it as little as possible. Alot of people are of the opinion that this chair will eventualy be removed, and never rebuilt, or that it will be removed, combined with new parts to make a few new chairs to replace older ones.

 

[Plowboy]

I think you are correct about the towers. From what I remember they did use most of the towers from the slug. No reason why you couldn't interchange towers. Go to http://www.skilifts.org/ Lots of info on lifts. They list the Northridge as Poma/Doppelmayr.

The quad chairs you see could be from the first GMX as they had to shorten it when it was moved to Northridge.