The 2006 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge: SUGARBUSH Owner and Operator WIN SMITH!

[thetrailboss]

I think you are correct about the towers. From what I remember they did use most of the towers from the slug. No reason why you couldn't interchange towers. Go to http://www.skilifts.org/ Lots of info on lifts. They list the Northridge as Poma/Doppelmayr.

The quad chairs you see could be from the first GMX as they had to shorten it when it was moved to Northridge.

The North Ridge is the original GMX chairs and all. Doppelmeyer did the relocation. Funny story...when they did the relocation, they did not know anything about the "competitor's design." They moved the lift, did the work to get it all set up, and when they were done, they came into the mountain op manager's office with a box full of parts. "We don't know where these go..." they said. :blink: :lol: The lift never ran right after that...broke down almost everyday. Poma went in and repaired it in 2002 when they came to do the new GMX. So in 16 years, three lifts, two of which were on the same route :lol:

 

[abarbiero]

win, just wanted to say "great job"..i have skied mrg for many years(also a shareholder) and bought north passes this year for my wife and i...had the good fortune of being at the cliffs over thanksgiving weekend when YOU dropped the rope..said this guy is right on top of things. my friend peter hoffman from merill said you were always one step ahead of everyone. my question is about seasonlong kids programs at north? do you have them like they do at mrg? if not it might be a great thing to do

 

[smootharc]

Very good question.

win, just wanted to say "great job"..i have skied mrg for many years(also a shareholder) and bought north passes this year for my wife and i...had the good fortune of being at the cliffs over thanksgiving weekend when YOU dropped the rope..said this guy is right on top of things. my friend peter hoffman from merill said you were always one step ahead of everyone. my question is about seasonlong kids programs at north? do you have them like they do at mrg? if not it might be a great thing to do

nm

 

[smootharc]

As long as the challenge is still open....

....a few more ??'s popped into my head this weekend....two nice days spent at Lincoln Peak. Crunchy Saturday, sweet spring-like on Sunday....close to 30k vertical total. Me thinks me is beyond beat....

So, my terrain obsession continues. I know the Forest service is involved. But every time I look at Castlerock I don't see four trails. I see about 8 or 9. They are not outside the current terrain zone "boundry parameters" of Castlerock to Middle Earth, but cut between the existing trails.

Here's a few names - "Inner Earth", "Outer Rumble", "Rumble Earth", "Inner Rock"......you guys get the picture. Thin, classically cut trails within the existing "terrain pod", slinking down that great face like little rivers of expert joy. More of the same great Castlerock.... but not rocking the existing Castlerock boat.

How about it ? Feasible in any way ? Am I nuts ?

 

[smootharc]

Sugarbush Glade Question....

....observing the "condition" of many gladed areas both on and off trail map there appears to be a lot of "cleaning" that could be done, both in terms of sapling/brush but also larger blowdown/uprooted trees. I realize there's that pesky forest service stuff to deal with, but what is or isn't "doable" from both a resort, and an individual's standpoint.

I realize there are "standard policy" answers here based on US FS regulations, but is there a point of reason in the middle where skier desires and forest management meet ? Thanks.

 

[PowderDeprived]

I really dont think anybody could have a problem, with removing dead or blown over trees, cleaning up litter, and planting new trees to preserve or expand on trail gladed areas (Sleeper Paridise, Lower Domino, Birch Run Muprhys etc...) which are starting become ungladed.

 

[tekweezle]

I have a question for Win Smith. Hopefully this is the right place to put it and it has not been answered yet.

Is there any possibility of Sugarbush teaming up with some other resorts to offer a sub $500 season pass? Maybe SB does it already and I don;t know about it.

 

[skibum1321]

I have a question for Win Smith. Hopefully this is the right place to put it and it has not been answered yet.

Is there any possibility of Sugarbush teaming up with some other resorts to offer a sub $500 season pass? Maybe SB does it already and I don;t know about it.

I doubt that would ever happen since SB alone is pushing $1000

 

[thetrailboss]

I doubt that would ever happen since SB alone is pushing $1000

I think the price of a pass at SB is something to address. Especially in light of other places (ASC, even Stratton!) are offering very deeply discounted passes. Stratton sells a "Sunday only" pass for $250!

 

[skibum1321]

I think the price of a pass at SB is something to address. Especially in light of other places (ASC, even Stratton!) are offering very deeply discounted passes. Stratton sells a "Sunday only" pass for $250!

I totally agree. I know the argument is that they offer the ME only pass, but this offers less than half of the terrain. All of the best-known trails and many of my favorite runs are at LP. I like ME but I wouldn't want to limit myself to there for an entire season. It is pushing unaffordable for adults. I have brought up the issue of young adult passes many times and how this is an ignored area by SB, so I won't go there again.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I doubt that would ever happen since SB alone is pushing $1000

If you purchase before May 3, the unlimited pass is $900. That's still about $100 too high for me, and I imagine most flatlanders. I can get tickets from a ski club for $38/day, so my break-even would be around 24 days. That's a lot of days to commit to. No matter how gung ho you are, something always intervenes to prevent you from hitting that number reliably. This year, it was the weather.

 

[skibum1321]

For the sake of argument, I consider $900 to be pushing $1000. And yes, it is too high for me at this point in my life. If I had a condo in the valley, maybe it would be a different story. Which is the view that many people my age have. In order to attract the next generation of condo owners, it seems that they should have a transitional price for young adults to get them hooked on the mountain like it was crack. College is a good start and I took advantage, but for the first 5 or so years out of college, young adults are just trying to get on their feet and usually cannot afford $900 for a pass.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

For the sake of argument, I consider $900 to be pushing $1000. And yes, it is too high for me at this point in my life. If I had a condo in the valley, maybe it would be a different story. Which is the view that many people my age have. In order to attract the next generation of condo owners, it seems that they should have a transitional price for young adults to get them hooked on the mountain like it was crack. College is a good start and I took advantage, but for the first 5 or so years out of college, young adults are just trying to get on their feet and usually cannot afford $900 for a pass.

Skiing always has been and always will be an expensive sport. There are very few people your age outside of Colorado and their Buddy Pass programs that can typically afford to buy a season pass. That said, I have many friends with moderate incomes who beg, borrow, and scrape their way to skiing 20, 20 or more days per year. Join a ski club to get tickets for $35-40/day at most resorts. There are always discounts here and there that enable you to get good deals.

Of course, you can always buy the blacked out ASC passes for $365 or so, but I think you get what you pay for.

 

[smootharc]

Another question for Mr. Smith.....SHARC....

Will the Subarbush Health and Raquet Club get any kind of facelift/makeover once the other capital improvements are made at the base ?

She's a decent and grand old dame that could use a new dress (or two). Any plans there ?

As an out of state second home person, I'd be more interested in joining if there was a MUCH more aggressive family membership program. It seems the place could use some more bodies.

 

[skibum1321]

Skiing always has been and always will be an expensive sport. There are very few people your age outside of Colorado and their Buddy Pass programs that can typically afford to buy a season pass. That said, I have many friends with moderate incomes who beg, borrow, and scrape their way to skiing 20, 20 or more days per year. Join a ski club to get tickets for $35-40/day at most resorts. There are always discounts here and there that enable you to get good deals.

Of course, you can always buy the blacked out ASC passes for $365 or so, but I think you get what you pay for.

Well what I see as hurting SB is the fact that so many other mountains around do have affordable passes. I did ski alot this year because I had a pass to Smuggs ($450 w/ no blackouts). As a result, most of my days were there instead of the Bush. I feel that they are driving many people in similar positions as myself towards other mountains. When these people have enough money to buy condos they will have loyalties to other mountains and will spend their money there.

 

[thetrailboss]

Skiing always has been and always will be an expensive sport. There are very few people your age outside of Colorado and their Buddy Pass programs that can typically afford to buy a season pass. That said, I have many friends with moderate incomes who beg, borrow, and scrape their way to skiing 20, 20 or more days per year. Join a ski club to get tickets for $35-40/day at most resorts. There are always discounts here and there that enable you to get good deals.

Of course, you can always buy the blacked out ASC passes for $365 or so, but I think you get what you pay for.

I don't think that the "skiing has always been expensive" argument flies though or offers a justification for having one of the highest adult season pass rates in New England when the overall trend is a decrease in price. In fact, skiing was for a long period of time an affordable form of recreation in the 1930's, 40's, 50's and even 60's.

In 2004-5, Sugarbush, Bretton Woods, Okemo/Sunapee, and Stowe were the only resorts that I observed that had an increase in the pass rate and that were way out of the price range of the market, which was falling. This was the first season of the "All For One." Jay Peak offered a full adult pass, with no black outs and reciprocity at many resorts, for under $500. Skibum cites Smuggs, a competitor, and Bolton, another competitor, also has dropped their prices as well. Even Stratton offers a Sunday pass that is under $300. Even worse, most pass programs are going to reciprocity with other resorts and other "added benefits" while SB pass, at $1000 or so, is still just an SB pass.

I think that SB is between a rock and a hard place. The place is too small to be Killington but too big to market as Bolton Valley. It is independent. I think that they can get more people "from their backyard" though by having more aggressive pass programs. Bretton Woods learned their lesson and their $499 Bode pass was a success from what I hear. I think simply defaulting to the, "it's an expensive sport...don't complain" line dodges the real issue at hand.

 

[madskier6]

And speaking of lifts, I have a question that could be added to another one or something.

I guess it is the plan to replace the Valley House Chair with a New High Speed Quad, and the Village chair with a new tripple. Does Sugarbush have a long term plan to replace or upgrade any of the many other aging lifts?

My question is related to PowderDeprived's above. Is it possible to (eventually) replace the Heaven's Gate chair with a high speed quad (or at least a higher speed chair than the current slowpoke triple)? That chair serves some of the best terrain at Lincoln Peak IMHO and the chair is so slow (and cold). I'm not really complaining just making an observation as to how the skiing experience could be improved at some of the best terrain on the mountain.

I realize that given its location (and the topography) a HSQ may not be possible but can't something be done to make it faster? For instance the Castlerock chair is a faster fixed grip double (with wide spacing between chairs). Can a faster fixed grip triple be installed? I love Castlerock's terrain but the trails at Heaven's Gate are open more days per year and therefore this chair deserves an upgrade IMHO.

A related question that some AZers might know the answer to is: how old is the current Heaven's Gate triple chair? What year was it installed and was it brand new when installed?

 

[Plowboy]

HG was put in the summer of 84. Poma Triple. New. Ripcord and Parachute(Lower Ripcord) were cut the year before the Gondola was removed. The Gondola was down for 3 weeks that year. The LT hike was from CR to HG for those 3 weeks. Face shots for many days!! Just check out some the old Warren Miller movies. My claim to skiing fame: My tracks made it into a Warren Miller movie. LOL

My ? What amusement park did the Spring Fling triple get sold to?

 

[skibum1321]

My ? What amusement park did the Spring Fling triple get sold to?

Was it Cedar Point?

 

[smootharc]

Not sure if it's a good idea to.....

My question is related to PowderDeprived's above. Is it possible to (eventually) replace the Heaven's Gate chair with a high speed quad (or at least a higher speed chair than the current slowpoke triple)? That chair serves some of the best terrain at Lincoln Peak IMHO and the chair is so slow (and cold).

....speed that up and spill more folks onto the existing trail system. Sometimes less is more....though I can't speak to feeling frozen with biting winds beating the warmth right out of you.