The ALTERRA SUCKS Thread

[4aprice]

Well, when there are about 60,000 local IKON passes (that is no joke), and Snowbird has abandoned the local day ticket and even season pass market for "IKON Days", I would not be so sure. Historically, things quiet down after President's Week, but there is no more normal.

I am ready for the aggro driving in the rush to get a parking spot at Snowbird to stop. Last weekend I was behind a Lexus sedan that literally drove DOWN the white dotted line at the initial merge on SR-210 so that NOBODY would merge and get in front of him. When he moved to the right lane, I proceeded forward and was met with a horn and a middle finger by the driver of the Lexus who once again pulled right back onto the white dotted line. I later passed him on a climbing lane and then watched him cruise into the ALTA WILDCAT lot which is all reservation based. I don't know what he thought he was gaining. I'm also sick of the Sprinter Van army, most of which have local Utah plates. YOU DON'T NEED A SPRINTER VAN TO GO DAY SKIING.

/rant

Well I'm arriving on St Patties Day for a week. I promise I will only ski Snowbird 1 day.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

The biggest crowds I’ve seen on this 2 week Colorado ikon trip that began on Presidents Weekend was Friday 23rd at Steamboat. The only place where there were actual lift lines. Every other day was ski on or like 5 chair waits. Including weekend days in Aspen and bluebird weekend days at A-Basin.

North Texas is a goddamn shitshow.

 

[4aprice]

The biggest crowds I’ve seen on this 2 week Colorado ikon trip that began on Presidents Weekend was Friday 23rd at Steamboat. The only place where there were actual lift lines. Every other day was ski on or like 5 chair waits. Including weekend days in Aspen and bluebird weekend days at A-Basin.

North Texas is a goddamn shitshow.

Couple of years ago (pre pandemic so maybe 5 now, wow) hit Steamboat for a weekend in March. The Saturday was fine, very short and few lines. Sunday arrived at the Gondola and the lines were out the maze. Unknown to us it was the start of "Texas Ski Week". Quite a show, but not too bad once up on the mountain.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well I'm arriving on St Patties Day for a week. I promise I will only ski Snowbird 1 day.

Don't drive your Sprinter van.

 

[kingslug]

I get to the gondi at PC a little before 8..wait 45 minutes...line is now huge behind me..but who cares..I'm the first or second cabin..
Then just stay ahead of the crowd. Works great...for many years now.

 

[jimk]

Busy day at Snowbird, but not like recent high volume weekend days. Squeezed into a spot on bypass road at 905AM. They opened mineral a little before 10am and the front side went quiet. I got two good powder runs in Mineral and left when lines grew. Got two good runs in upper cirque, one down Great Scott. Beautiful weather day. I left a little after noon. Wifey wants me to go to accompany her to home depot. But tomorrow's another day.

 

[kingslug]

I like that run..

 

[EPB]

"All of" or "most of" - choose whatever term you want. Show your work.

What's Behind KSL's $3 Billion "Continuation Vehicle" for Alterra? - Ski Area Management

SAM Magazine—Denver, Feb. 2, 2024—KSL Capital Partners (KSL) closed a 'single-asset continuation vehicle' for Alterra Mountain Company in late January, with total commitments of more than $3 billion, KSL said in a press release. What it didn't say, and what many in the industry are speculating...

www.saminfo.com

These deals get done without operating statistics reaching the public. At minimum, the winning PE investors would have interviewed management several times, hired consultants to verify figures and business prospects are solid, done their own independent homework, etc. before this deal got done. If you think that Alterra didn't demonstrate skier visit growth and above average ability to generate and grow revenue/customer higher then industry averages, you're dreaming. It's been a very challenging environment for CVs to get done in the last two years. The fact it did happen makes it even more unlikely than usual that Alterra's growth didn't stand up to scrutiny.

It's been strange to watch a cohort of Alterra fanboys (and girls) bend over backwards to defend the wall for KSL - just like the Epic loyalists. It at least does my heart good to see that Alterra seems to deservedly have a better ratio of advocates to detractors than Vail. Both parties of the quasi duopoly obviously share part of the blame for crowding, but Alterra seems to do a much better job with the on mountain product and communicating with guests - at least in the east

 

[hovercraft]

Welcome! I live in Midvale. Draper is ideal but expensive.

That'll put us at 4.25 AZ members living in UT in 20ish mile radius. The Alpinezone capital of the world is Utah, go figure.

Slug can afford it after all he is the

 

[kingslug]

True...kings need castles...

 

[jimk]

Well I'm arriving on St Patties Day for a week. I promise I will only ski Snowbird 1 day.

Let me know if you want to make a few turns together. Can't guarantee I'll be available on a given day, but possibly?

Someone asked me today on another forum if skiing in busy UT is still fun? Here is my long winded reply:

I am lucky enough to have a son who lets me camp out in his basement all winter and it's 20 mins (on a good day) from Alta/Bird and Sol/Bright. This is the sixth consecutive winter I've spent 4-5 months in Utah. I've had a season pass at Snowbird each year and I usually get to ski several other nearby resorts each winter, especially Solitude (with Ikon base, or in 2020 I had an epic pass for PC). I have developed some local's knowledge about when and how to optimally ski the mtns here. I'm also easy to please. I skied the puny, snow-starved mtns of the mid-Atlantic for 50 years before switching mostly to Utah. I've skied nine ski areas in Utah (and about 100 total in North Am and Europe). I love them all. Snowbird is my son's favorite mtn in UT and I gyrated towards it too.

Parking: the simple solution, at least for Snowbird, is to go early. Thing is, I almost never do because I know where to finagle a spot even on crazy-busy days. I ski weekdays and weekends about 4-5 days per week. Today (Wed, Feb 28, 2024) was quite busy, first sunny day after one foot of snow. I arrived at 9AM and squeezed in on bypass road for a nice, free, unreserved ski-in/ski-out parking spot. I used the singles line to move quickly through a big back-up at the Peruvian Chair. I was among the first to get into Mineral Basin when it opened on my second ride up Peruvian. Got two good powder runs there. The huge front side of the mtn goes empty after about 1030am on a sunny day when the tourists flock to Mineral and 45 min lift lines. I got two nice runs off the upper cirque including one down Great Scott.


I left the mtn a little after noon because my non-skiing wife wanted me to accompany her to Home Depot. She enjoys planning and doing a lot of fine home improvements to my son's house. We stay in a basement in-law-suite she designed and acted as general contractor for in his house. I enjoy skiing partial days. It keeps me from getting over tired. I like the idea that the mtn is my gym for a few hours, several days per week.

The growing horde of permanent/semi-permanent SLC population doesn't both me too much. 80% of all weekdays are still great crowd-wise. On the busy weekends I have a mellow attitude because I get to ski with my son and I know I have more quiet weekdays ahead. We also have strategies for staying away from busy chair lifts, so I rarely wait in a lift line more than 10 minutes even on big days. Most of the time it's five or less. Most weekdays it's ski-on. It's those quiet days when I'll ride the tram. BTW, April is the best out here! No traffic, no lines, friendly weather, great spring skiing. I also eat a home made bag lunches almost every time I ski a full day. I rationalize that it pays for next year's season pass.

I have developed a nice posse of geezer ski buddies here in UT. I often ski with one or more friends. There is safety and convenience in numbers. Some give me rides to Solitude so I've only paid to park there once in the last ten years. I also use the bus on occasion although it's not a great alternative. There's a stop about 3 blocks from where I stay. However, they killed the line I used to take to Alta/Bird. Only once in ten years have I been shut out from parking at Snowbird in hundreds of visits. It was last year on a huge weekend day. There were 3 of us in the car and my daughter volunteered to drop my son and I off while she drove the car back home. We later caught the bus down the hill. Twice this year I've had 90+ minute drives down LCC, but both were on big powder days - so kind of worth it.

All this is to say, yes it is still fun for me. The crowds and traffic are tolerable/manageable in my situation. It's actually heaven. Now if you ask a tourist who flies across the country to ski two crowded weekend days he may have an entirely different opinion because he got caught in bad traffic, saw nothing but big lift lines, ate cold $25 chicken fingers, and never fully adjusted to the altitude before he went home

 

[BenedictGomez]

Hoping to find something within an hour from the airport and park city.
Will have to get used to traffic again...one thing we don't have in vt...

There's no real traffic in Utah, nothing like N.NJ/NYC/Boston, etc....., it's just that the people in Utah think there's traffic. It's pinch-your-cheek adorable.

If you REALLY want to avoid traffic, come to the Back, only issue is home prices are significantly more expensive than the Front.

 

[BenedictGomez]

this is a funny post after the “ikon causes crowding” series of posts.

Yeah, I dont get it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

there are about 60,000 local IKON passes (that is no joke)

Awl Dose PeePull moVed to Teh SahlT LayK in Teh Lahst FoRe YearZ!

 

[BenedictGomez]

I'm also sick of the Sprinter Van army, most of which have local Utah plates. YOU DON'T NEED A SPRINTER VAN TO GO DAY SKIING.

Is this a COVID phenomena? I see these things all over Park City (and the giant Ford ones too). They often occupy the first two rows of the lots (maybe they're glamping there?). I just dont remember seeing so many of these things....... anywhere as in the last few years. Seems mostly well-heeled 20s to early 30s peeps, but yet not likely with Fortune 500 jobs.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Wifey wants me to go to accompany her to home depot.

 

[thetrailboss]

Is this a COVID phenomena? I see these things all over Park City (and the giant Ford ones too). They often occupy the first two rows of the lots (maybe they're glamping there?). I just dont remember seeing so many of these things....... anywhere as in the last few years. Seems mostly well-heeled 20s to early 30s peeps, but yet not likely with Fortune 500 jobs.

Exactly

 

[BenedictGomez]

It's been strange to watch a cohort of Alterra fanboys (and girls) bend over backwards to defend the wall for KSL

It's very "strange" to deny IKON & EPIC aren't greatly contributing to crowding, in face of all the facts, all the industry peeps stating otherwise, all the articles written to such effect, and tangentially even the companies themselves by their own mitigating action attempts. It's as if they think their "cheap skiing" is going to go away if enough people simply point out the obvious.

SPOILER ALERT: Their "cheap skiing" IS going to go away, just not from people's criticism, but via IKON & EPIC price increases which will be coming once each company is satisfied with its scale. I predict we'll see a pretty big EPIC increase this year bigger than normal, if not, certainly next year. That frog's gonna' get boiled once these companies feel it's safe to turn the h2o to 212 degrees fahrenheit. And Vail Resorts is definitely motivated to turn up the temperature.

 

[kingslug]

There's no real traffic in Utah, nothing like N.NJ/NYC/Boston, etc....., it's just that the people in Utah think there's traffic. It's pinch-your-cheek adorable.

If you REALLY want to avoid traffic, come to the Back, only issue is home prices are significantly more expensive than the Front.

I got used to empty roads in vt. What does amaze me is the amount of accidents on the main roads when it snows. I counted about 30 on the way to the airport during a squall.

 

[oldfartrider]

The cheap skiing is already gone. All the profits are in F&B. Maybe not so much from this crowd but their on mountains restaurants r packed every weekend. Also Apre ski entertainment drinking, there’s some serious $$ being made there.