The ALTERRA SUCKS Thread

[machski]

Alterra sucks just for making Sunday river so ridiculously crowded.

I also agree patrollers get the shaft on pay. Workers in general have been getting shafted the last 50 years

Compensation of Employees: Wages and Salary Accruals/Gross Domestic Product | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Graph and download economic data for Compensation of Employees: Wages and Salary Accruals/Gross Domestic Product from 1947 to 2024 about accruals, compensation, salaries, wages, employment, GDP, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

Here we go. SR was crowded before Max or iKon, not just Alterra causing that. Boyne has spent a ton and I'm sure plenty are skiing/riding on NEP's at SR. Sure no reservations for iKon allow those folks to show up whenever they feel like it which when SR is prime compared to other areas in NE, can cause congestion. But the backup on the way into the mountain weekends has a lot more to do with the ever growing bedbase of the surrounding area than just one pass. 30 years ago, the Bethel area had a lot less beds off hill than it did on hill. That has severely flipped now.

 

[machski]

There were always busy days but every weekend wasn't a shitshow. Now the blackout days are the only days without huge crowds

Guess you never skied during the ASC pass days then? Constant S-show every weekend back then.

 

[machski]

Peak put heavy emphasis on snowmaking - rather than lifts.
- New snowmaking system at Wildcat
- Fan guns at Attitash and Crotched

Seriously, Peak basically rebuilt Crotched from the ground up. That mountain they invested heavily in yanking it out of NELSAP status.

 

[thetrailboss]

Seriously, Peak basically rebuilt Crotched from the ground up. That mountain they invested heavily in yanking it out of NELSAP status.

I was going to say that Crotched was their first foray into New England and it was a pretty big success. And if memory serves me right, Peak initially wanted to reopen Temple Mountain but ran into issues with the previous owner.

 

[BodeMiller1]

Here we go. SR was crowded before Max or iKon, not just Alterra causing that. Boyne has spent a ton and I'm sure plenty are skiing/riding on NEP's at SR. Sure no reservations for iKon allow those folks to show up whenever they feel like it which when SR is prime compared to other areas in NE, can cause congestion. But the backup on the way into the mountain weekends has a lot more to do with the ever growing bedbase of the surrounding area than just one pass. 30 years ago, the Bethel area had a lot less beds off hill than it did on hill. That has severely flipped now.

Yep, Sunday River will always be crowded. It's a great place to ski in the winter and a lot of fun outdoorsy things in the Summer. Far less crowded than New Hampshire on the hiking trails. Very easy drive from everywhere. The people who live in the region are friendly and helpful.

Family friendly mountain.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Hey local guy, you claimed a 29 year timeframe originally with your tale of the guy from Solitude that switched to Epic.

And? The rather obvious point was he has 3 decades of experience skiing Solitude, and noted it's only gotten terrible post IKON.

Kind of exactly the same thing that you said about Jackson Hole post IKON. Imagine that.

Starting to agree with the 2 or 3 other posters here who recently noted they think you just want to argue on teh inturnetz. You cant even agree with yourself!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Alterra / iKon is fine some places and not others. I don't hear any complaints from the Maine folks.

Speculation, but perhaps this is because Maine is DAH to get to and is in no way a "destination" area?

It seems the places that IKON & EPIC are really jamming up are the elite destination places (Jackson Hole, Park City, Vail) and/or places near large population centers (Crystal Mountain, Solitude, Steven's Pass).

 

[thetrailboss]

A few folks have been asking about one, so here it is.

The first post? When you see IKON's advertising in a few days, most likely pushing "diversity" and other values that younger and generally more politically left folks like, just remember that like Vail, this company also has fought to prevent its employees from even saying the word, "union." At Solitude, they fired a ski patroller two years ago who expressed an interest in organizing a ski patrol union. That resulted in a complaint with the NLRB that resulted in a settlement.

This season there is another effort to unionize and at least have a seat at the table to get better pay and be recognized for having to have EMT credentials to work at the resort. It is supported by 94% of the ski patrollers. And when asked if it would work with them and accept them? Alterra said hell no.

So when you see all those warm and fuzzy IKON ads portraying themselves as hip and progressive, remember that who is paying for the splashy ad campaign are two large private investment funds with a CEO who came over from Live Nation and is eager to introduce more of the "dynamic pricing" and other price gouging efforts while ignoring their own ski patrollers at the only "unlimited" IKON resort in Utah.

Solitude ski patrollers union organizers say better pay needed to keep experienced employees on the slopes

Solitude Mountain Resort's ski patrollers petitioned to unionize Wednesday. If they're successful, they'll be the first patrollers to unionize at an Alterra Mountain Resorts-owned property and the second in Utah.

www.sltrib.com

As I said, right on cue. Solitude's marketing team pushed on social media yesterday a post from last year regarding the first African American Ski Instructor that was at Solitude. He deserves recognition in his own right. It really should have come at the BEGINNING of Black History Month as opposed to at the end and right after publicity in the local media about their anti-employee stance. They’re taking credit for something done by a previous management and ownership. So yeah, feel good about Solitude and forget about that whole union vote thing. Yes, I am jaded, but as I've said before, the Alterra media machine knows how to spin things......

The Legacy of Dr. Daily Oliver

As we Celebrate Black History Month we're honored to share the legacy of Dr. Daily Oliver and his impact at Solitude

blog.solitudemountain.com

 

[boston_e]

As for the subject at hand, it's interesting how Alterra / iKon is fine some places and not others. I don't hear any complaints from the Maine folks. In fact, the iKon and tiered structure of the Boyne products have made holiday weekends less crowded than regular weekends from what I've heard.

I’ve definitely heard SR and SL friends talk about the ikon swarm being unbearable…

 

[thetrailboss]

I’ve definitely heard SR and SL friends talk about the ikon swarm being unbearable…

I could see SR being busier than SL since it is easier to access for most folks. I know that when we were at the Loaf last winter a lot of locals told me about the increase in crowds. We didn't see it but we were there right after the Christmas Holiday. I could see that Boyne would want to drive traffic to their Maine areas. Loon would be the most crowded and IIRC is restricted for IKON (reservations needed).

I wonder if Boyne will add Pleasant Mountain to their NE Pass and IKON. It seems like they are keeping that ski area low-key. It would certainly make IKON competitive to have an option in the MWV to compete with EPIC.

 

[Terry]

I could see SR being busier than SL since it is easier to access for most folks. I know that when we were at the Loaf last winter a lot of locals told me about the increase in crowds. We didn't see it but we were there right after the Christmas Holiday. I could see that Boyne would want to drive traffic to their Maine areas. Loon would be the most crowded and IIRC is restricted for IKON (reservations needed).

I wonder if Boyne will add Pleasant Mountain to their NE Pass and IKON. It seems like they are keeping that ski area low-key. It would certainly make IKON competitive to have an option in the MWV to compete with EPIC.

Pleasant parking lots have been full every weekend as it is. No way could they handle NE Pass and Ikon as well. No place to put them.

 

[deadheadskier]

I’ve definitely heard SR and SL friends talk about the ikon swarm being unbearable…

Maybe regular weekends?

Sunday River was pretty dead on Presidents Day despite pretty nice weather. I didn't make it to Jordan, but all lifts we skied were basically a 5-6 chair wait max except for Barker and even that was under ten minutes.

 

[NYDB]

 

[4aprice]

Pleasant parking lots have been full every weekend as it is. No way could they handle NE Pass and Ikon as well. No place to put them.

That's what is also going on down here at Camelback PA. Haven't seen much difference because the lots were just as full before Ikon as they are now.

 

[boston_e]

Maybe regular weekends?

Sunday River was pretty dead on Presidents Day despite pretty nice weather. I didn't make it to Jordan, but all lifts we skied were basically a 5-6 chair wait max except for Barker and even that was under ten minutes.

I have not been to either in some time, so i'm only relaying what I have heard from friends who are regular maine skiers and can't say what specific weekends they may have been referring to - just a general comment.

I do think there is something to be said that the blackout weekends may almost be less crowded than the weekend after a blackout. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Ikon passes sold are the blackout version vs the full version.

I also think that (to a degree) what is getting overloaded on the busiest weekends are not always the lift lines (especially at places like K and SR where if you know the mountain you can escape the crowds) but more so the other things like parking, trying to get a snack in the lodge etc etc.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Maybe regular weekends?

Sunday River was pretty dead on Presidents Day despite pretty nice weather. I didn't make it to Jordan, but all lifts we skied were basically a 5-6 chair wait max except for Barker and even that was under ten minutes.

Yeah, I was there Super Bowl weekend, not nearly as busy as I expected. The Locke mountain triple and spruce peak triple had little/no wait all day. Barker and Jordan had huge crowds mid morning to early afternoon but the single line moved quick (these 6’s and 8’s seem to take singles on every chair), both lifts were pretty much ski on in the afternoon.

 

[Mailman]

As I said, right on cue. Solitude's marketing team pushed on social media yesterday a post from last year regarding the first African American Ski Instructor that was at Solitude. He deserves recognition in his own right. It really should have come at the BEGINNING of Black History Month as opposed to at the end and right after publicity in the local media about their anti-employee stance. They’re taking credit for something done by a previous management and ownership. So yeah, feel good about Solitude and forget about that whole union vote thing. Yes, I am jaded, but as I've said before, the Alterra media machine knows how to spin things......

The Legacy of Dr. Daily Oliver

As we Celebrate Black History Month we're honored to share the legacy of Dr. Daily Oliver and his impact at Solitude

blog.solitudemountain.com

What does Alterra trying to avoid employees unionizing have to do with DEI initiatives or the way they market themselves?

It’s entirely possible (and I think probable) to be invested in some liberal values while still believing that unions are an outdated relic and bad for business.

 

[parahelia]

I have not been to either in some time, so i'm only relaying what I have heard from friends who are regular maine skiers and can't say what specific weekends they may have been referring to - just a general comment.

I do think there is something to be said that the blackout weekends may almost be less crowded than the weekend after a blackout. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Ikon passes sold are the blackout version vs the full version.

I also think that (to a degree) what is getting overloaded on the busiest weekends are not always the lift lines (especially at places like K and SR where if you know the mountain you can escape the crowds) but more so the other things like parking, trying to get a snack in the lodge etc etc.

It's interesting, I was expecting this past weekend to be much busier at SR than President's Day weekend because there was no Ikon blackout. But no, it was also quiet (not that I'm complaining). The NEP Silver was blacked out Saturday, maybe that indicates that they get a lot more traffic from those passes?

 

[thetrailboss]

Pleasant parking lots have been full every weekend as it is. No way could they handle NE Pass and Ikon as well. No place to put them.

I think Boyne gets credit for NOT making Pleasant IKON. Consistent with their other acquisitions, they seem content just letting the existing management run it as it has been, especially if that has been successful.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Sunday River was pretty dead on Presidents Day despite pretty nice weather.

This is actually more proof IKON & EPIC lead to crowding 95% of the time, because it's the holidays which are ironically NOT as busy as they used to be, because the IKOK/EPIC pass holding hoards aren't there in force vis-a-vis the black-out dates.

It was the same thing at Park City recently during Presidents Day Weekend (PDW). I drove by the Cabriolet lot which is the #1 parking s**t show here given it is literally the only "free" parking lot, and it gets filled-up to maximum capacity with the "LOT FULL" sign every Saturday and Sunday sometime between about 9:45am - 11am, yet PDW there was ample parking to be had.

Yes, both your example and mine are "anecdotal", but when "anecdotal" evidence is virtually unanimous coast-to-coast by hundreds of different people, it is no longer "anecdotal", it is empirical verifiable fact. IKON & EPIC cause crowding.