The Average Skier is the Enemy!

[riverc0il]

I very much disagree.

Perhaps because you drive up from New Jersey, I guess. Or perhaps a low MPG vehicle? But at a 10 cent difference in gas prices, you have to use 50 gallons of gas for that to make a $5 difference. Speaking for myself, a round drip drive to Jay for me is 7.5ish gallons so a 10 cent increase in prices or a difference between gas stations only saves/costs me $0.75. Please note that my previous post was not suggesting that gas is inexpensive but merely suggesting counting pennies at the pump does not really add up now that the average fill up for most people is around $30+ which as previously pointed out, was probably not what the other poster that I had responded to was trying to say.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

The average fill-up for most people is a heck of alot more than $30..I paid $42 the other day filling up my Impreza at $3.25 a gallon..and my car gets better gas mileage than most..

 

[ckofer]

Perhaps because you drive up from New Jersey, I guess. Or perhaps a low MPG vehicle? But at a 10 cent difference in gas prices, you have to use 50 gallons of gas for that to make a $5 difference. Speaking for myself, a round drip drive to Jay for me is 7.5ish gallons so a 10 cent increase in prices or a difference between gas stations only saves/costs me $0.75. Please note that my previous post was not suggesting that gas is inexpensive but merely suggesting counting pennies at the pump does not really add up now that the average fill up for most people is around $30+ which as previously pointed out, was probably not what the other poster that I had responded to was trying to say.

Perhaps more important to the discussion is the cost of heating fuels (at least for some)

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/hopu/hopu.asp

Add in plowing and other winter maint costs and some are tapped out financially. Believe it or not, some folks are just tired of winter. I have a small contracting business and making money is tough in this weather. Thank goodness for my cheap skiing hobby.

 

[riverc0il]

The average fill-up for most people is a heck of alot more than $30..I paid $42 the other day filling up my Impreza at $3.25 a gallon..and my car gets better gas mileage than most..

That is why I wrote $30+ and when I wrote "fill up" I am also assuming you are not driving around on fumes. I tank up around a quarter of a tank and almost never less than an eighth. "Fill Up" only means you fill your tank up and does not assume an empty tank.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

That is why I wrote $30+ and when I wrote "fill up" I am also assuming you are not driving around on fumes. I tank up around a quarter of a tank and almost never less than an eighth. "Fill Up" only means you fill your tank up and does not assume an empty tank.

O.K. I fill up when the light goes on..lol..prolong the inevitable..lol

 

[jaywbigred]

Perhaps because you drive up from New Jersey, I guess. Or perhaps a low MPG vehicle? But at a 10 cent difference in gas prices, you have to use 50 gallons of gas for that to make a $5 difference. Speaking for myself, a round drip drive to Jay for me is 7.5ish gallons so a 10 cent increase in prices or a difference between gas stations only saves/costs me $0.75. Please note that my previous post was not suggesting that gas is inexpensive but merely suggesting counting pennies at the pump does not really add up now that the average fill up for most people is around $30+ which as previously pointed out, was probably not what the other poster that I had responded to was trying to say.

Well, despitedrivng from lowly NJ, it has not effected me. My car gets decent gas mileage, and gas prices in NJ tend to be lower tha elsewhere in the country. Plus I have a good job and I always carpool w people who pitch in for gas.

All that being said, I think you misse part of the point of my post, which is that high gas prices effect consumer not only when they fill up their individual vehicles, but across the board, as seller' of goods an services pass on the increased cost of doing business to the buyer. So you might pay 20% more for your tank of gas, but you also are paying more for a loaf of bread, for a driveway to be plowed, for a hotel to be heated, for a case of beer, and so on. When you add that all up, you have a trip that is more expensive, comparative to past years.

 

[riverc0il]

If I missed your point, it was because it was not a factor in the discussion at hand and from which you originally quoted me. A 10 cent jump is not 20% increase and is not going to change domestic prices on goods because it is well within a give range of variance. The jump from $2 to $3 a gallon surely has increased prices for consumer goods across the board which is irrelevant to the my post replying to a previous thread, which again, has been suggested was not the intent of the poster. In other words, the point I was arguing is irrelevant to the discussion but the point you are taking me to task on was never being discussed either.

 

[Lostone]

Just give me the snow and nobody gets hurt.

:-o


:razz:
​

I think Greg is right. It is the fault of the average skier. They stop coming up early. And so do a lot of the non-average skiers.

I think the average skiers gets in less than 10 days a season. Those days end before spring begins... on the calendar. I think the average skiers stop shortly after that.

Today was a day that people would die for in November. (They'd die for it in an ordinary December, but this December... But I digress... :smile: ) But come March, they start to see grass, in their back yards. They switch seasons. I had a friend, who was here this time last month, who asked if the mountain was closed. :-o

The ski areas would love to stay open. But they need people to buy lift tickets. They need people to buy food. They need people to rent places to stay. They need people to pay them to stay open. They need people to come up.

Don't they owe it to those who paid for the season? Yes. But most project a closing day. They owe it to the passholders to try to make it to that day. Most would love to exceed that day, but they need people to pay them to stay open. How much would you give away, with no return, other than reputation?

I doubt any say they'll stay open as long as there is snow.

 

[loafer89]

At this point I think that the weather is the enemy, with the exception of Northern Vermont and select spots in New Hampshire, the skiing is not that great and the ice storm from last week ruined the natural snowcover in Maine.

Sadly the extended forecasts that I see call for much below normal temperatures and even worse, little or no new snow. Honestly I am not interested in wasting expensive gasoline and lodging for mediocre skiing. We will be skiing locally and waiting for a thaw, but we may run our of operating days before the corn snow shows up on a consistent basis

 

[bobbutts]

At this point I think that the weather is the enemy, with the exception of Northern Vermont and select spots in New Hampshire, the skiing is not that great and the ice storm from last week ruined the natural snowcover in Maine.

Sadly the extended forecasts that I see call for much below normal temperatures and even worse, little or no new snow. Honestly I am not interested in wasting expensive gasoline and lodging for mediocre skiing. We will be skiing locally and waiting for a thaw, but we may run our of operating days before the corn snow shows up on a consistent basis

Yeah the real shame about the early closing dates is the lack of days with classic spring weather especially if it stays below normal starting now.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I skied Blue yesterday and Camelback today and there were lots of people out skiing and even some short liftlines..Camelback remains open and Blue is now closed..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

No Spring riding this year for me :sad: .. how does that fit into the global warming picture.. now work is my life for the next 8 weeks.

Do you get extra vacation time to make up for working 56 days in a row straight?

 

[deadheadskier]

No just that dam extra money .. :smile:

You should take that extra mullah and do a trip to Chile this summer to make up for the turns you're losing in April :beer:

 

[happyjack]

sorry for being a n00b, but what exactly is "earn your turns"?

 

[deadheadskier]

sorry for being a n00b, but what exactly is "earn your turns"?

What's a n00b??? :lol:



j/k - earn your turns = hike for skiing as opposed to taking a lift or other mode of transport

 

[happyjack]

ok. that's what i thought, but sometimes it seemed like it was used where i didn't think that translation made sense.

then again...there's lots of stuff that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[jaywbigred]

....dont discount gas prices, that's swaying alot of folks as well .....

This was the quote you originally took issue with. To me, "swaying" can mean both overtly, conciously, when the skier fills up his/her gas tank, but also (perhaps subconciously), as he feels the sting of overall spikes in prices for certain goods/services, partly due to this same increase in gas prices.

...A 10 cent jump is not 20% increase

It is if you go from.50 cents to .60 cents ;-)

and is not going to change domestic prices on goods because it is well within a give range of variance. .

Again, I disagree with that statement. A long term permanent change of a penny will, ever so slightly, effect the overall cost of consumer goods.

The jump from $2 to $3 a gallon surely has increased prices for consumer goods across the board which is irrelevant to the my post replying to a previous thread,

I don't know what "previous thread" you are referring too, but I think when you address the question as to what is impacting 1) less skier visits and 2) earler resort closings, it makes sense to look at something like the rise, between 2002 and 2006, for example, of inflation adjusted gas prices, from $1.50 to $2.50, a rise of 66% in inflation adjusted dollars.

(from inflationdata.com)

Let me state one more time, (I'm trying to emphasize this point) that in order to answer the questions at hand "why are skier visits down from prior years" and "why are mountains closing earlier than prior years", you have to look at comparisons on a year-to-year basis! Thus, the.10 cent rise you keep citing is irrelavant beceause it doesn't address the change in gas prices over a relevant span of time (multiple years).

Fictional AZer 2002:
20 ski trips (20-40 ski days).
300 miles round trip.
23 mpg avg in his car
13 gallon tank
1 tank of gas = 1 roundtrip
1 fill up = $1.50 x 13 = $19.50
gas cost for year = $390

Fictional AZer 2006:
To reach the same $390 in inflation adjusted dollars, the 2006 AZer
would only be able to take 12 ski trips.
12 ski trips (12-24 ski days?)
1 fill up = $2.50 x 13 = $32.50
gas cost for year = $390

In 2006, in order to spend the same amount of inflation adjusted dollars as he/she did in 2002, an AZer would have to forego 8 trips and 8-16 ski days. Thus, an AZer in 2006 would have to choose between spending more of his disposable income on gas, or skiing less. Certainly a good number of skiers would choose to ski less (if the opportunity cost for him is too high, if his disposable income is earmarked for other expenditures, or if he was already maxing out his disposable income to go skiing), and, as a result, skier visits go down, mountains make less money, mountains close earlier.

And, of course, gas prices from 2006-2008 have certainly increased, even after adjusting for inflation. So I am sure the difference is even greater today. Therefore, I am going to go ahead and agree with Skiquattro, that gas prices may sway some skiers, even without having to add-in my point re: other goods.

which again, has been suggested was not the intent of the poster.

Did Skiquattro state, somewhere, his intent?

In other words, the point I was arguing is irrelevant to the discussion but the point you are taking me to task on was never being discussed either.

Huh? I am not sure I follow that, but I think the point we are arguing is certainly relevant to the discussion.

 

[tcharron]

[rant]
Obviously AZ represents the more passionate skier demographic and some of us will ski even after lift serviced is done. It's kind of ironic though that the "average" skier seems to be the one that keeps the industry afloat financially despite being far less passionate. Yet, ski area/resorts are forced to cater to them. They are the reason for a lot of things that many of the die hards don't like - overgrooming of trails, early closures, etc.
[/rant]

The average skiier doesn't want to go to a mountain which has all of it's trails be bunny trails. They want to go SKI on blues, think of them as double blacks, and brag to their friends. :-D

Unfortunately, they're also the ones paying $60-$90 for a day pass and are, on a per skiier impression, considered the target audience. They're also the ones, don't forget, that are staying at the hotels and eating in the eateries at many of the larger places. The 'I need lodging tonight' cost at Killingtons largest hotel can go to $200 pp/pn.

 

[tcharron]

I agree with some, but not all of your premise.

The first part, yes, but if you go to the mountain on any given day, 80% of the skiers are skiing on 20% of the terrain. Blacks, moguls, woods, etc. are all overrepresented based on what the majority of the skiers are looking for. Given where the skiers congregate, I think we're lucky that more of the mountain isn't given over to big, wide blues and greens groomed to within an inch of their lives.

As I said earlier, most of them don't want to JUSt ski, they want to ski at a place that HAS the impressive trails, even if they have no intent of doing them. Well, they have intent, till they see them, and say 'Lets trye these greens to warm up', and never actually have the guts to go try the black diamond. But those trails are what give the mountain the 'aura' that attracts the minions.

 

[tcharron]

Does any one know which areas do not allow turn earners to climb about their slopes once they close down for the season?
I'm definitely willing to hunt for corn on a nice spring day but would not want to run into access hassles.

I read last year some of them encouraged it. Pretty sure it was Magic mountain that said come do it anytime, year in or out, and do it for free (even during peak season).

http://www.magicmtn.com/static_page.php?id=38