The Elephant in the Room

[UVSHTSTRM]

Al Gore is a piece of shit!
Global Warming is happening!
Did man cause this? Who knows, but if we did I am all for population control, because that is the only way to solve this problem (if man made).

I just hope my house becomes valuable beachfront property before I die!

 

[The Sneak]

Here's the thing about 'big money on either side of the issue'...big businesses/extremely powerful and wealthy people stand to lose a lot of money if global warming is demonstrated to be real and caused by man. They are motivated to discredit scientific studies for financial reasons.

What is the scientific community's motivation to fudge the numbers? I don't get it. I know America rules and all, but why is Global Warming accepted as scientific fact in most other non 3rd world nations? I know they are all mindless socialists, but we also all know this country is increasingly failing at science in the classroom...

 

[mediamogul]

Here's the thing about 'big money on either side of the issue'...big businesses/extremely powerful and wealthy people stand to lose a lot of money if global warming is demonstrated to be real and caused by man. They are motivated to discredit scientific studies for financial reasons.

What is the scientific community's motivation to fudge the numbers? I don't get it. I know America rules and all, but why is Global Warming accepted as scientific fact in most other non 3rd world nations? I know they are all mindless socialists, but we also all know this country is increasingly failing at science in the classroom...

This was exactly my point about framing it as a political issues as opposed to a scientific one. It seems clear that certain folks have a vested interest in it being untrue for monetary reasons (the solar flares argument is silly if you ask me). I don't understand the vested interest in the other side proving it to be true. This is a scientific discussion based on evidence and the hypothesis of global warming still has not been disproven by the facts. It is clear that pollution is having a negative effect on the environment and the only folks who stand to lose anything by that being true are the corporations.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You think the side (for lack of a better word) that is anti-status quo controls the levers of power, and is more heavily invested, than the oligarchy and corporate overlords?

Yes, and it's not even close in terms of magnitude of power. Government > Corporations. Government can shut down a corporation, a corporation cannot dissolve a government.

I've been in the environmental sciences for over 15 years. In that time I have worked for academic institutions, governmental agencies, commercial industries, and non-profits. By FAR the biggest budgets, deepest pockets, and heavy investing in science came from the commercial industries (specifically oil companies). And actually I've never experienced any of those entities trying to influence the results of the science I worked on. Although I'm aware that it happens.

I'm talking specifically about Global Warming, not studies on the effect of XYZ animal in the way of a pipeline, oil eating bacteria, or any other myriad activities that oil companies fund. Lastly, it should be noted that while all this oil research gets lumped together and vilified, much of it is great work that the oil companies should be commended for. Not that it's politically popular to pat an oil firm on the back.

What is the scientific community's motivation to fudge the numbers? I don't get it. I know America rules and all, but why is Global Warming accepted as scientific fact in most other non 3rd world nations? I know they are all mindless socialists, but we also all know this country is increasingly failing at science in the classroom...

To keep receiving free candy is one answer. And America doesnt "rule" on this issue, in fact, I'd say America lags.

As for Socialism, there's some truth to this via the UN's path to solving the GW "problem", which even though we arent even sure it IS a problem, has become the UN's and thus the worlds #1 priority. Really?

Do you think it's pure coincidence that the "cure" for man-made Global Warming results in massive transfers of wealth from richer nations to poorer nations?
Do you think it pure coincidence that the "cure" for man-made Global Warming results in a economic hardship to the wealthiest nations and a "leg-up" to the poorer nations?
Do you think it's pure coincidence that the "cure" for man-made Global Warming results in unprecedented increases in power and authority to various nation's government?

So whether or not you believe in the science of global warming is one issue......

But another issue is the above, that most curiously, any potential remedy for Global Warming always oddly involves the transfer of wealth from rich nations to generally 3rd world nations, and MORE ALARMINGLY, rather than focus on a real "cure" or a healing of the planet (assuming you believe this stuff), the entire focus is on $$$$$ and power. Trust me, I could go on and on and on about the hypocrisy of this last issue. IF you believe in man-made global warming, they why the hell arent they addressing the most important CAUSES of it, instead of focusing on extracting $$$$ from corporations and government.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It seems clear that certain folks have a vested interest in it being untrue for monetary reasons (the solar flares argument is silly if you ask me).

So let me get this straight...... you firmly believe in the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis, despite the holes and/or unproven nature of this theory.

BUT..........

you believe that an alternate hypothesis involving cyclical outbursts from the sun, you know, that big fiery ball that has caused warming EVERY DAY for billions of years (literally), the exposure to which causes such insignificant events as SUMMER, and the lack of exposure to which causes such insignificant events as WINTER, is a "silly argument" for warming? I mean, really?

I don't know, maybe the folks who believe the solar flares hypothesis are 100% wrong.

But to swallow the fact that in just 100ish years or so man has caused dramatic warming on our planet via CO2 production, while simultaneously dismissing a hypothesis involving, wait for it..... THE SUN, is the sort of thing that frustrates the hades out of people like me who are skeptical to begin with and would at least like to believe we can scientifically find the truth either way.

I'll tell you one thing though, the Global Warming folk better hope the solar flare hypothesis is wrong, because NASA predicts we're about to enter a period of 15 or 20 years with low solar activity (link below). A bonus if the solar flare theory folks are right? MORE SNOW!!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...A-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

 

[mediamogul]

So let me get this straight...... you firmly believe in the anthropogenic global warming hypothesis, despite the holes and/or unproven nature of this theory.

BUT..........

you believe that an alternate hypothesis involving cyclical outbursts from the sun, you know, that big fiery ball that has caused warming EVERY DAY for billions of years (literally), the exposure to which causes such insignificant events as SUMMER, and the lack of exposure to which causes such insignificant events as WINTER, is a "silly argument" for warming? I mean, really?

I don't know, maybe the folks who believe the solar flares hypothesis are 100% wrong.

But to swallow the fact that in just 100ish years or so man has caused dramatic warming on our planet via CO2 production, while simultaneously dismissing a hypothesis involving, wait for it..... THE SUN, is the sort of thing that frustrates the hades out of people like me who are skeptical to begin with and would at least like to believe we can scientifically find the truth either way.

I'll tell you one thing though, the Global Warming folk better hope the solar flare hypothesis is wrong, because NASA predicts we're about to enter a period of 15 or 20 years with low solar activity (link below). A bonus if the solar flare theory folks are right? MORE SNOW!!!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...A-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

Wow. Nice paper tiger.

Winter is related to proximity of the sun to hemispheres of the earth. The prevailing weather patterns in a winter are related to things such as the AO, jet stream, etc... We can within reason predict upcoming weather patterns based on these things. Its not perfect but its ballpark. In other words we can generally see a warmup coming and it has everything to do with these metoerological phenomena.

Simplifying it all down to solar flares is silly to me. The fact that its related to the sun just makes it easier for folks to understand. Glo al warming may turn out to be bullshit but folks should be calling bullshit on solar flares from a mile away. Also, talk about vested interest tis would alleviate pressure on corporations related to emissions so score one for the corporations.

What's next blaming moon flares for every warm night. Sheesh.

 

[mediamogul]

Another thing is no I don't firmly believe in Global Warming and I have said repeated to people I know that prevailing weather patterns have shaped this winter. This is a La Nina winter. Warm, wet, and not half as much fun as those two words are usually associated with.

 

[ScottySkis]

We need snow!

 

[witch hobble]

Yes, and it's not even close in terms of magnitude of power. Government > Corporations. Government can shut down a corporation, a corporation cannot dissolve a government.

It could be said that corporations have been diluting our system of government for about 120 years or so.

Anyway, once again I am assuming you are talking about our government here in the USA. Which politicians do you think are truly wielding the levers of power in favor of real regulatory measures for extractive and polluting industries? And how are they doing it? I just don't see it.

 

[Morwax]

Here's the thing about 'big money on either side of the issue'...big businesses/extremely powerful and wealthy people stand to lose a lot of money if global warming is demonstrated to be real and caused by man. They are motivated to discredit scientific studies for financial reasons.

What is the scientific community's motivation to fudge the numbers? I don't get it. I know America rules and all, but why is Global Warming accepted as scientific fact in most other non 3rd world nations? I know they are all mindless socialists, but we also all know this country is increasingly failing at science in the classroom...

Oh you mean like solyndra uke:

 

[Morwax]

uke:Why do all mindless socialist quote third world countries?

 

[Morwax]

One other thing Ive wondered and it may not be true because I havnt hear a thrid world country state it as fact but...MAYBE the earth is dynamic and is always cooling or warming up.. you know like and ice age or something

 

[Cannonball]

The original post was enticing. And now that we've been through this "discussion" I finally get the thread title....

 

[riverc0il]

We need snow!

What Scotty Said!!!

When a Scotty post is grammatically correct, you know a thread has gone too far! :lol:

 

[ALLSKIING]

What Scotty Said!!!

When a Scotty post is grammatically correct, you know a thread has gone too far! :lol:

:lol:

 

[ScottySkis]

What Scotty Said!!!

When a Scotty post is grammatically correct, you know a thread has gone too far! :lol:

Thanks lol

 

[Morwax]

I would really like the planet to stay constant. Are there any companies working on freezing time that could use my tax dollars. When will the gubment fix all that troubles the perpetual whiners of the world.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Last year the season was saved with a huge storm at the end of Feb.

 

[steamboat1]

Farting camels must die.

 

[witch hobble]

Last year the season was saved with a huge storm at the end of Feb.

Globally or locally?