The Industry View on Spring Skiing

[joshua segal]

It's interesting how modern snowmaking has pushed back the start of the ski season. Prior to the snowmaking era, Christmas was at most marginal skiing. The ski season really was Jan. 15 to Mar. 15. As Killington began pushing the envelope with snowmaking, not only did Christmas become one of the biggest weeks of the season, but the big players also brought Thanksgiving on board as a full-fledged holiday weekend.

And yet, there has been no real push to extend the season in the spring. Modern snowmaking really provides an advertise-able and a high quality marketable product through mid-April. I hear excuses, but the truth is, beyond Killington, (almost) nobody seriously tries - or they try once, without advertising, don't get a crowd (or get rain) and say, "Gee, that didn't work."

Now I've been to Killington in late May. While there is no lift line on the Superstar chair, the downhill capacity of the one open trail is pretty much tested to its limit. People in this forum recognize that the best 2 months of New England skiing is from Feb. 15 to April 15.

What is preventing the ski area operators from getting out of their pre-snowmaking thinking and trying to market their product?

 

[Savemeasammy]

Most of the casual skiers don't care once it starts to warm up and the snow melts. They are ready to move on to other things.


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[VTKilarney]

Exactly. It's cold during Christmas. It's not cold in April.


.

 

[joshua segal]

The idea of "not cold" is not supported by the facts. Yesterday it wasn't cold and we had some of the longest lift lines of the season. Blue skies and sunshine bring out skiers in January or April.

There are no crowds on the cold-rainy days in January, but the areas have already booked pre-paid programs, so the guests come out any way. I suspect if there was some March/April marketing...

 

[Savemeasammy]

I'm surprised to hear you say the lines were "long" yesterday.

I wonder if it was a combination of - A: pent up demand. We've had a lot of weekends with less than ideal ski weather this year; and, B: no ones lawn has melted off yet. If you can't do your spring yard work, you might as well ski?!


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[ss20]

I've seen more and more people out later in the season this year than in years past. Hopefully the old trend is changing.

 

[deadheadskier]

Doubt it. It's a factor of snow still being on the ground in the flatlands. Usually by now lots of golf courses are opening, athletic fields are clear for spring sports to start practices for the kids and as mentioned, spring yard work.

Another factor why spring skiing isn't very popular is many people don't like the heavy wet snow and uneven surfaces. It's difficult to ski for lower level skiers.

 

[Edd]

I was at Crotched yesterday and it was friggin busy. My friends that go there more often were shocked. There was a big race going on, however. The lift stayed open until 5 and it was still getting a lot of use.

 

[VTKilarney]

The idea of "not cold" is not supported by the facts.

Go ahead and believe that it is a "fact" that a typical Christmas week is not colder than a typical week in April. That belief won't be shared by me.

 

[VTKilarney]

Another factor why spring skiing isn't very popular is many people don't like the heavy wet snow and uneven surfaces. It's difficult to ski for lower level skiers.

That is a good point as well. Especially for people who don't get out until late in the day.

 

[Smellytele]

My wife hates spring skiing. I like it sometimes but as others have said warm weather activities start to take precedent. The condition can vary widely through out the day. Crusty firm in the AM, great mid day then too wet later in the day.

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

People are forward thinking, sometimes irrationally so. By early April many regions have had a least a taste of warm(-er) and sunny weather and people start thinking of spring stuff, even if the weather overall is still more winterlike. Conversely, by early-mid Dec we usually get at least some cold and snow so people start thinking winter activities, even if the season is not really ready yet (even with snowmaking).

Far different context, but I think it's the same mentality that leads people to pull the safety bar down *immediately* after sitting on the chair even though it's barely a scary one foot off the ground, yet those same people get fidgety if the bar doesn't come up 20 seconds before the top of the chair, even though you might still be 30ft above ground.
So anxious to feel like they're moving on to the next task. As soon as gdf'ing possible. <rolleyes>

 

[deadheadskier]

As great a turnout I'm hearing about this weekend, fast forward to next with warm weather forecasted for late this week and the Easter Holiday on Sunday. The faucet gets turned off fast for all but the diehards.

Weather is a much bigger gamble for resorts in spring too. For every nice weather day like yesterday, there's a chance for a rainy day too.

 

[St. Bear]

People are forward thinking, sometimes irrationally so. By early April many regions have had a least a taste of warm(-er) and sunny weather and people start thinking of spring stuff, even if the weather overall is still more winterlike. Conversely, by early-mid Dec we usually get at least some cold and snow so people start thinking winter activities, even if the season is not really ready yet (even with snowmaking).

This is very true. Christmas, and even the push for Thanksgiving works because winter is new and people are looking for a different activity. By the time April comes around, they're sick of winter and snow and are ready to move on, even if it provides some of the more pleasant skiing experience of the year.

 

[bdfreetuna]

It is sad when you see places like Bolton and Pico will be closing their doors for the season with essentially 98%+ open terrain.

Killington quickly becomes my favorite ski resort in late April / May and then once again come November.

 

[hammer]

All good comments...but now I wonder, do casual golfers get tired of golfing in November?

 

[St. Bear]

All good comments...but now I wonder, do casual golfers get tired of golfing in November?

Not exactly apples to apples, but I'd say yes. Spring skiing is actually more accessible to the casual skier (warmer temps, hero snow) while Nov golf is not appealing to the casual golfer (cold and blustery).

 

[deadheadskier]

It is sad when you see places like Bolton and Pico will be closing their doors for the season with essentially 98%+ open terrain.

Killington quickly becomes my favorite ski resort in late April / May and then once again come November.

To be honest, I have long felt that consolidation of open resorts in the spring is best for a longer season overall. I'd rather see fewer resorts open and turning a profit so they have an incentive to stay open longer than have many resorts still open and losing money.

After mid-April, I'm fine with a couple of areas per state remaining open and everyone else throwing in the towel. If those areas only operate 3-4 days a week, that's fine too. Give me Killington and Jay in VT, Bretton Woods and Wildcat in NH and Sugarloaf for Maine and I'm good. Then come May; Killington, Wildcat and Sugarloaf is plenty. We make it to June and Killington is enough.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I agree, consolidation makes sense.

But mountains should also be flexible -- and I'm just talking about most of the larger mountains, or mountains in areas that naturally benefit from lots of snow -- to remain open in the case, like this year, many of them will be closing with just about 100% terrain.

Good on Pico staying open an extra weekend, but frankly their regular closing date is aimed more towards a weak season in terms of snow. Supposedly this is Bolton's last weekend open (unless they decide to stay open) which is a crying shame considering how much snow there still is.

Not trying to tell anyone how to run their business but I hate to see a mountain covered in snow go to waste and close up before the corn harvest even really gets going.

 

[WWF-VT]

To be honest, I have long felt that consolidation of open resorts in the spring is best for a longer season overall. I'd rather see fewer resorts open and turning a profit so they have an incentive to stay open longer than have many resorts still open and losing money.

After mid-April, I'm fine with a couple of areas per state remaining open and everyone else throwing in the towel. If those areas only operate 3-4 days a week, that's fine too. Give me Killington and Jay in VT, Bretton Woods and Wildcat in NH and Sugarloaf for Maine and I'm good. Then come May; Killington, Wildcat and Sugarloaf is plenty. We make it to June and Killington is enough.

After mid-April every open mountain is losing money.