The School They Love But Never Attended

[wa-loaf]

The extreme skiing that goes on today could not have been done on yesteryears equipment is what I meant

Sorry had you backwards.

Still, the guys on the Dartmouth ski club back in the day used to straight line tuckerman's. I don't think I'd want to do that on modern equipment, let alone old wood skis.

 

[tjf67]

You mean falling off a 250 foot cliff and landing on your head?

I could do that with 2x4's on my feet.

Yeah thats what I was thinking. I could not take my old 208 into the places that I take my 177 today.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Sorry had you backwards.

Still, the guys on the Dartmouth ski club back in the day used to straight line tuckerman's. I don't think I'd want to do that on modern equipment, let alone old wood skis.

I think it was Hannes Schneider who straightlined the headwall during an Inferno race...beat the rest of the pack by something like 12 minutes...fking nuts!

 

[2knees]

I think it was Hannes Schneider who straightlined the headwall during an Inferno race...beat the rest of the pack by something like 12 minutes...fking nuts!

I remember reading about that. I think the guys name was Toni Matte or something. If i recall, he misjudged the location of the headwall and straightlined down the whole thing. 1939.

 

[wa-loaf]

I think it was Hannes Schneider who straightlined the headwall during an Inferno race...beat the rest of the pack by something like 12 minutes...fking nuts!

No, it was Dick Durrance I believe.

 

[JimG.]

No, it was Dick Durrance I believe.

It was Toni Matt. And 2knees is right...he didn't intend to straightline the headwall; he misjudged his location and got to the lip in a tuck. At that point he just said F it and tucked all the way down to Pinkham.

I believe his time of just over 9 minutes from summit to Pinkham broke the old record by something like 12 minutes and that record still stands today...nobody has even come close.

 

[wa-loaf]

I remember reading about that. I think the guys name was Toni Matte or something. If i recall, he misjudged the location of the headwall and straightlined down the whole thing. 1939.

Nope you are right:

The third American Inferno was held April 16, 1939, with forty-two skiers taking part. To reach the start of the race they had to hike the four miles and four thousand vertical feet up the course. On reaching the summit they waited in a shack called Camden Cottage until the decision was made to hold the race in spite of the cold temperatures and 60-mile-per-hour winds.

Among the racers was Toni Matt, a young Austrian skin instructor, who had spent the winter working for the Eastern Slope Ski School at Mt. Cranmore. Though he had bib number 4, Matt ran third, ahead of Dick Durrance, who had to adjust his equipment at the last moment. The wind was blowing so hard at the start that matt just needed to lift his poles at the signal, and the gusts started him on his way.

Matt had only been on Mt. Washington once before, on a foggy day. On his hike up he planned to make three turns over the steepest part of the Headwall, then straighten out for the outrun. As he neared the Lip of the Headwall in the race he made his three turns and straightened, only to discover that he was just approaching the steepest part. With no chance now to turn he rode out his schuss down the precipitous slope, thrilling the many spectators in the Bowl. Shooting across the ravine floor, down the Little Headwall and on down the Sherburne ski trail, Matt finished in 6:29.2, cutting the old record almost in half.

Matt's unplanned feat became the talk of the ski world. A few others have run the Headwall straight from a standing start, before and after Matt- Norwegian jumper Sigmund Ruud in 1932, and several competitors in the shortened 1952 Inferno- but none have captured the imagination of Tuckerman skiers like the legendary Toni Matt. Recalling the event in later years, Matt stated that the sensation of high speed came to him at the transition from the steep wall to the flat floor of the ravine; he felt lucky to be "nineteen, stupid, and have strong legs"

 

[dmc]

Todays new school is tomorrows old school...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I'm not worried, just trying to discuss. I worry too much about other things so I'm not going to start worrying about whether it's appropriate for relatively young people to call MRG "old school"

UR right of course, but you're taking my post too seriously. I was just trying to stir the pot a little with this thread, try to get a debate going, that's all. I sure don't care what anyone calls anything. I called Greg out cause I know he gets me and knows I'm harmless.:beer:

 

[riverc0il]

C'mon HPD, lighten up a little bit will ya :lol: Grass is always greener and all that, don't you know? Seriously though, "old school" may perhaps be the wrong word. Most skiers looking for that "old School" stuff are referring to the terrain and something other than homogenized sameness. Of course we value our technology.... but this young whipper snapper of a 28 year old grew up skiing 204s... so I got a taste of the older school... and I will take the ungroomed natural snow trails with modern tech and skis and hit the backcountry with my fancy shmancy specialized boots, bindings, and so called "skins" and I will like it. Without having experienced the pain and hurt of the cubco bear trappers, I am still smiling all the way. So long as you keep me off the homogenized frozen hard pack.

 

[Greg]

I called Greg out cause I know he gets me and knows I'm harmless.:beer:

Interesting post in that without knowing you personally, I could see some reading too much into your thread here. I love how you take the time to come up with some truly intriuging topics; many of which garner tens or hundreds of replies. Unfortunately this, my geriatric friend, is not one of them...

All kidding aside, HPD is one of the most sincere and nicest AZers I've met. Helluva skier too (for an old guy). I would recommend anyone here to ski with him if given the chance.

 

[lloyd braun]

In my opinion we are all very lucky to be skiing now.

Old School/New School

Prior to the majors affects of Global Warming (no discussion needed) which are bound to change our sport in the next 20 years, and with the current technology, we have it the best anyone ever will. the equiptment will improve but the seasons will shorten and the snow quality will change.

this is a discussion I had on the Gondola with Klaus Obermeyer last season. he is like 87 or something and says comparing the equiptment of yesteryear to now is like comparing 2 different sports. he says the mountain has not changed that much. So in his opinion we are skiing the same quality snow as 60 years ago with much improved equipment.

We also discussed the changes in our climate (aspen) in the last 10 years. It is noticeable and I fear each year will become less wet. It already seems to be that way. My kids (who are not born yet) will only get to ski into late march unlike late april as we do.

I think we should all be grateful! Enjoy the east while you can, cause in 20 years I fear it may not be around

 

[awf170]

We also discussed the changes in our climate (aspen) in the last 10 years. It is noticeable and I fear each year will become less wet.

I'm not trying to get into a global debate or anything, but 10 years means nothing. There are such things as cycles. The mid 90's to around 2003 were a ridiculous era for the east coast, probably one of the best 10 year periods in the last 100.

Also, don't you have mountains that have good skiing into June out there?

 

[lloyd braun]

I'm not trying to get into a global debate or anything, but 10 years means nothing. There are such things as cycles. The mid 90's to around 2003 were a ridiculous era for the east coast, probably one of the best 10 year periods in the last 100.

Also, don't you have mountains that have good skiing into June out there?

I am totally with you. and agree one hundred percent. I also believe that we are under an acceleration of the "warming". So you will notice changes in shorter time periods. What damage was done in the last 50 years, twice that damage will now only take 30 years and so on. Some don't agree, some do. I hope I am wrong.

and yes we do have skiing well into june. I was strickly speaking of Aspen Ski Company Mountains. the local mountains go from 8K ft to 12K ft,

all the june skiing starts at 12K ft and goes to 14K ft

 

[madskier6]

I don't know whether I completely qualify as being able to comment on "old school" but I did start skiing in the 1960s (1968 when I was 5 years old). I also started with leather boots and the cable bindings on all wood skis. I later graduated to Cubco bindings & black Head metal skis. I also remember wearing 2 pairs of socks & wool sweaters while skiing on most days. Remember the leather safety straps?

My heyday of skiing as a kid, however, was in the 1970s & early 1980s. I skied on Rossignol ST Comps with Salomon 555 bindings & Lange boots. I do remember the hot women in stretch pants although I was just an adolescent at that point.

I'm relatively new to skiing in the East, however. I learned to ski in Southern Wisconsin on little molehills & then skied quite a bit in Colorado as a high school & then college student. I only started skiing the East regularly starting in 2001. I did ski at Sugarloaf 4-5 times in the mid-1980s.

To me, "old school" is anything that is not a "McMountain" with wide, homogenized trails & snowmaking everywhere. Narrow, twisiting trails that follow the contours of the mountain like what you have at MRG, Magic, etc.

I agree that we have it much better now with modern clothing & equipment. Skiing is a lot easier & funner today IMHO but it is nice to reminisce about the past.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

To me, "old school" is anything that is not a "McMountain" with wide, homogenized trails & snowmaking everywhere.

Call it "McMountain" all you want, but with the weather patterns we have here in New England I'm more than happy to have snowmaking all over the place...looking through some pics of this past winter, there wasn't any natural snow in my yard, on Shawnee Peak or Sunday River on Jan 13th...fast forward to April 13th and everything was covered in a deep blanket of white. Personally, I'd rather not wait for mother nature to give us love from above before I can get on the hill.

 

[kcyanks1]

Call it "McMountain" all you want, but with the weather patterns we have here in New England I'm more than happy to have snowmaking all over the place...looking through some pics of this past winter, there wasn't any natural snow in my yard, on Shawnee Peak or Sunday River on Jan 13th...fast forward to April 13th and everything was covered in a deep blanket of white. Personally, I'd rather not wait for mother nature to give us love from above before I can get on the hill.

Do you mean you want snowmaking on every trail, or you want enough snowmaking on some trails or at some resorts that you can at least be guaranteed to have some decent skiing in the heart of winter? If it's the latter, I agree. I don't want snowmaking to be completely abandoned to the point that a bad winter means no skiing or skiing on only a trail or too. At the same time, once there is enough natural snow to ski natural snow trails, I ski as little of the man made snow as possible -- partially because I like the real snow better, and partially because I generally like the terrain of trails that do not have snowmaking better. In some (not nearly all) cases the terrain on those trails is such that snow making isn't practicable.

 

[Greg]

Call it "McMountain" all you want, but with the weather patterns we have here in New England I'm more than happy to have snowmaking all over the place...looking through some pics of this past winter, there wasn't any natural snow in my yard, on Shawnee Peak or Sunday River on Jan 13th...fast forward to April 13th and everything was covered in a deep blanket of white. Personally, I'd rather not wait for mother nature to give us love from above before I can get on the hill.

Do you mean you want snowmaking on every trail, or you want enough snowmaking on some trails or at some resorts that you can at least be guaranteed to have some decent skiing in the heart of winter? If it's the latter, I agree. I don't want snowmaking to be completely abandoned to the point that a bad winter means no skiing or skiing on only a trail or too. At the same time, once there is enough natural snow to ski natural snow trails, I ski as little of the man made snow as possible -- partially because I like the real snow better, and partially because I generally like the terrain of trails that do not have snowmaking better. In some (not nearly all) cases the terrain on those trails is such that snow making isn't practicable.

I'm all for snowmaking. I do think though that some mountains can strike a better balance of making snow on a trail and then letting it get a little "wild". Annapurna at Hunter is a good example. Pretty narrow at the top and bottom. Steep but wider in the middle and snowmaking the entire length. It seems they blast it with snowmaking, groom once (maybe?) and then leave it alone for the most part.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Do you mean you want snowmaking on every trail, or you want enough snowmaking on some trails or at some resorts that you can at least be guaranteed to have some decent skiing in the heart of winter? If it's the latter, I agree. I don't want snowmaking to be completely abandoned to the point that a bad winter means no skiing or skiing on only a trail or too. At the same time, once there is enough natural snow to ski natural snow trails, I ski as little of the man made snow as possible -- partially because I like the real snow better, and partially because I generally like the terrain of trails that do not have snowmaking better. In some (not nearly all) cases the terrain on those trails is such that snow making isn't practicable.

A large majority of the trails...most of my days are at Sunday River and they can do some skier visit volume for sure...so the more trails they can have open (typically requiring snowmaking...we get less nat snow here than in VT) the better they are able to spread the crowds and the more terrain avail to ski. Sunday River makes great snow...almost as good as the real stuff...I'll check the trail report in the am and we'll usually make more laps on trails with fresh man made than those without. There are very few trails at the River (other than glades) that don't have access to snowmaking. When mother nature does give us the love we'll spend more time in the woods anyway....but I wouldn't have wanted to wait until 2-14 this year to ski most of the mountain. If I spent most of my days at S-bush, Stowe, or Jay, I'd be less inclined to want more snowmaking...or if the snowmakers at the River weren't as skilled as they are...but they usually make some seriously sweet snow.

 

[bigbog]

.........

[drumroll:]....And the Oscar goes To..............
"Coots On The Hood"...that might be good.....:-D

Much to his credit, Seth (Morrison?) started doing a lot of things in 200s+ back in the early 90s that are these days mostly attributed(incorrectly) to the star park & pipe skiers.