The "Sugarbush Thread"

[fulgoreXC]

Yes, they fixed the air leak.

Is the feed up Birch sized appropriately to be able to run both trails simultaneously?

The Birch-Sunrise is a loop fed out of the bunker next to the NL lift. Yes, the pipes up both trails are sized properly. And the direction of flow can go either way. Generally up SR and down Birch. The issue is pressure which is why only one trail gets the water at a time. The elevation difference between the base area pumps and the summit of the North Lynx peak is such that the pressure at the top is fairly low. If too much water is taken off the feed side it lowers the pressure the top of the loop to barely sufficient/insufficient for snowmaking. The pipes could be several feet in diameter, and this wouldn't change. The timing for making snow on the NL pod is typically around Jan 1, so it would seem they are on schedule. Birch first then Sunrise. For sure there's plenty more capacity to run on another pod or trail. I haven't been to south since before Christmas so not sure what's left to be done that would make sense to do while they're on NL.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

that ain’t how it usta be… as long as we weren’t running the lower trails, we could light up both sides no problems at all.

ya dial back yer overflow and the sr guns at the top to compensate for the lower pressures.

 

[Rob Katz]

Rob, I think your view is the actual problem. I do have teachers in my family and extended family. The story's I hear about shitty little kids with attitudes and their shitty parents. No, being an educators sucks and it is people like you that only making it worse. I think parents should sign waivers allowing teachers to punish the shitty kids. Not violence but detention and expulsion. Also real education should be augmented by a thoughtful government. Just my 2 cents.

Merry Fucking Christmas......LOL

my parents raised me very well. i have never gotten in trouble of any kind and am perfectly respectful towards my teachers, more so than my classmates.

 

[Rob Katz]

LOL. Not a boomer, but most definitely older than you. Love it when a kid who is barely old enough to drive thinks they know it all. Good luck with that.

i think i know plenty about the education system i literally just went through lol, not being arrogant at all

 

[fulgoreXC]

that ain’t how it usta be… as long as we weren’t running the lower trails, we could light up both sides no problems at all.

ya dial back yer overflow and the sr guns at the top to compensate for the lower pressures.

No SR's up there anymore. That generation is long passed. Low-E guns need water pressure, not air volume. But you make a good point maybe some blues up there would be good. just keep it on the dl so management doesn't catch on

 

[mikec142]

i think i know plenty about the education system i literally just went through lol, not being arrogant at all

Congrats on recently becoming old enough to drink. Like I said...good luck.

 

[cdskier]

The Birch-Sunrise is a loop fed out of the bunker next to the NL lift. Yes, the pipes up both trails are sized properly. And the direction of flow can go either way. Generally up SR and down Birch. The issue is pressure which is why only one trail gets the water at a time. The elevation difference between the base area pumps and the summit of the North Lynx peak is such that the pressure at the top is fairly low. If too much water is taken off the feed side it lowers the pressure the top of the loop to barely sufficient/insufficient for snowmaking. The pipes could be several feet in diameter, and this wouldn't change. The timing for making snow on the NL pod is typically around Jan 1, so it would seem they are on schedule. Birch first then Sunrise. For sure there's plenty more capacity to run on another pod or trail. I haven't been to south since before Christmas so not sure what's left to be done that would make sense to do while they're on NL.

Off the top of my head they haven't hit Hot Shot/Waterfall/Lower Hotshot and Upper Birdland yet outside of NL. I can't think of anything else other than just adding depths on the spring trails later on.

 

[fulgoreXC]

Off the top of my head they haven't hit Hot Shot/Waterfall/Lower Hotshot and Upper Birdland yet outside of NL. I can't think of anything else other than just adding depths on the spring trails later on.

Hmmm... miss a couple of weeks miss a bunch over there at south. That's what happens when north opens. I spend more time there than south. Hotshot is on the main to the NL pod. Would make sense to start hitting something on Hot Shot. Perhaps from Sleeper Road down

 

[ducky]

Heard the triple was having problems.

 

[Newpylong]

The Birch-Sunrise is a loop fed out of the bunker next to the NL lift. Yes, the pipes up both trails are sized properly. And the direction of flow can go either way. Generally up SR and down Birch. The issue is pressure which is why only one trail gets the water at a time. The elevation difference between the base area pumps and the summit of the North Lynx peak is such that the pressure at the top is fairly low. If too much water is taken off the feed side it lowers the pressure the top of the loop to barely sufficient/insufficient for snowmaking. The pipes could be several feet in diameter, and this wouldn't change. The timing for making snow on the NL pod is typically around Jan 1, so it would seem they are on schedule. Birch first then Sunrise. For sure there's plenty more capacity to run on another pod or trail. I haven't been to south since before Christmas so not sure what's left to be done that would make sense to do while they're on NL.

I am aware of how pipe sizing works, I install snowmaking systems. It was lost on me how high NL was in comparison to the base, and was asking if the pipe was sized appropriately to not starve one side or the other if both trails were lit. It wouldn't surprise me because we've had to unf*ck dozens of other ASC distribution shortcuts and they put that pipe in in '95.

If their air capacity is low as you said, then not being able to run the SR7s over the crest of both trails definitely would rule the whole thing out.

 

[mikec142]

This season has been a disaster for me...never made it up in December because of planned vacation and kids home. This past weekend I still had one kid home. Planning on going this weekened and the weather looks horrible.

 

[Getskied]

Off the top of my head they haven't hit Hot Shot/Waterfall/Lower Hotshot and Upper Birdland yet outside of NL. I can't think of anything else other than just adding depths on the spring trails later on.

Over at Ellen I believe it’s just Cliffs and Brambles at this point.

 

[fulgoreXC]

I am aware of how pipe sizing works, I install snowmaking systems. It was lost on me how high NL was in comparison to the base, and was asking if the pipe was sized appropriately to not starve one side or the other if both trails were lit. It wouldn't surprise me because we've had to unf*ck dozens of other ASC distribution shortcuts and they put that pipe in in '95.

If their air capacity is low as you said, then not being able to run the SR7s over the crest of both trails definitely would rule the whole thing out.

Surprisingly, the pipe is sized correctly. Can't say that about other lines on the hill. there's enough air for a 1/2 dozen or so depending on temps.

 

[STREETSKIER]

2-4" last night 3-5 tonight
Fox weather live at Ellen today

 

[Hawk]

No SR's up there anymore. That generation is long passed. Low-E guns need water pressure, not air volume. But you make a good point maybe some blues up there would be good. just keep it on the dl so management doesn't catch on

Not saying you but....It really pisses me off that people champion the low-e guns. They all blow wet muck that freezes and does not groom up that well. I have given them the benefit of the doubt for about 10 years now and have made it an effort to actually stand there and see the quality of snow coming out of them at different temps. I have done this at several ski areas and there is no operation that works well. It was 0 out and Sugarbush was blowing mud. The only place that the snow was light-ish was the towers on Rip and even those were borderline. Steins was blowing mud at 5 degrees. I think they need to revisit the Low-E and spend the money on the air. Noisy guns with compressed air make the best snow. Fact not opinion......

 

[Newpylong]

No one is going back to High E, you need to get over that. That said, they shouldn't be making mud at 5 degrees (assuming it's also dry) even on Stage 4-5. A good snowmaker can make dry snow with Low-E nearly as well as with a hog in all but the most marginal conditions. The only reason Low-E would be wet in those temps is if the water and/or air pressure were inadequate.

Fulgore, do they not get 200+ on the water when running Steins or be less than 80 PSI on the air side for some weird reason?

 

[Hawk]

Newpylong, I know you work in the industry and I do respect that, but I am not just bitching for the sake of bitching. I am speaking the truth. I blew snow at sunday river for a couple of years. I am sure you are familliar with the arm test. You set the guns and if the snow does not bounce off your arm you adjust? There has not been a Low-E gun at sugarbush that has passed this test. Not ever! Seriously, I am not making this up. Now I do not know what the underlying issues are but every veteran here at the bush has the same opinion.

Honestly I miss the River and their operation. If it wasn't for the terrain and natural snow at the bush I might be still there.

 

[bumpcrasher]

Not saying you but....It really pisses me off that people champion the low-e guns. They all blow wet muck that freezes and does not groom up that well. I have given them the benefit of the doubt for about 10 years now and have made it an effort to actually stand there and see the quality of snow coming out of them at different temps. I have done this at several ski areas and there is no operation that works well. It was 0 out and Sugarbush was blowing mud. The only place that the snow was light-ish was the towers on Rip and even those were borderline. Steins was blowing mud at 5 degrees. I think they need to revisit the Low-E and spend the money on the air. Noisy guns with compressed air make the best snow. Fact not opinion......

Absolutely agree!! The quality of the product put out by the old Ratnick Snowguns was superior in any temperature to the Low-E guns. Yet, no ski resort is going to use them on a widespread basis any time soon.

 

[tumbler]

I liked the old Blue running at the top of Steins on Saturday. Music to my ears.

And Birch-Sunrise would run at the same time with the SR-7s. Hang at Rosie's and one crew do each trail then back up to dry off.

 

[fulgoreXC]

No one is going back to High E, you need to get over that. That said, they shouldn't be making mud at 5 degrees (assuming it's also dry) even on Stage 4-5. A good snowmaker can make dry snow with Low-E nearly as well as with a hog in all but the most marginal conditions. The only reason Low-E would be wet in those temps is if the water and/or air pressure were inadequate.

Fulgore, do they not get 200+ on the water when running Steins or be less than 80 PSI on the air side for some weird reason?

Can't disagree that Low-E guns run on the wet side, especially in the mid 20's and it's always going to be wet when you ski under the plume. But below 20 the snow underfoot should not be "sticky". I can't understand how the snow is "mud" at 5 degrees, nor will I argue with @Hawk's experience. The only way that happens is when a gun is malfunctioning. It would only be one or two, not the entire trail. Other than a few small areas around the mountain the water/air pressure is within the range for these guns. Regardless, unlike the old rats/sr's/lp3's/etc... the particles from a low-e gun are not fully frozen when they hit the ground so the piles will feel a bit wet. It's better under towers than land gear. This is much different than the experience with those old guns where blower pow could be made at almost any temp. Just do the ole jacket test, watch the bouncing particles and turn down the water until the majority bounce. The new guns don't have that adjustability.

I will say there's a culture component to modern snowmaking. For almost every resort the snowmaking season doesn't run the entire length of the ski season. It's generally 3 months. In that time, the objective is to lay down the volume that will typically result in enough cover to last until the closing day. So, when confronted with a compressed timeframe and strict targets the tendency is to push more water. Or "bank up" earlier than you would normally. There needs to be a constant reminder that "flow don't equal snow", but management is always angling to be done early with less. Because snowmaking is expensive.

As for the top of Steins there should be ample water and air pressure. You will often see an old rat, sr or even a k-gun at the top. It's easier to move and position than the logics or vipers.