The "Sugarbush Thread"

[castlerock]

The saying goes (and I believe it to be true) employees don't leave companies - they leave managers.

Good point. I believe it true as well.

Interesting note on the food service management. I heard the hype last fall about the new "food guy". I didn't see anything significant in terms of an upgrade during the season.

 

[smootharc]

A few microcosmic and macrocosmic observations....

This thread is really informative....and it got me thinking about a few things as they relate to Sugarbush (microcosmic) and the Mad River Valley (macrocosmic). Alot of the observations regarding individual points as they relate to the SB experience are valid...and offered by the posters in mostly a spirit of positive hopes for an area they love. That's a testament to the place and the people.

But it's like a marriage....sometimes we get so caught up it becomes easy to point out small flaws in someone, and forget to step back and look at the overall picture. I don't know the SV owners, but from all reports they are hands on, sincere, and trying to do the right thing. And SB is just one part of a very special valley....a part of vermont that's escaped the "stratton-okemo-killington-evenStowe-ification" of the ski, and living experience. Yes, there are nits to pick....but, wow, I'm pretty impressed with the overall on mountain experience. And with the valley in a broader sense.

Didn't ASC lose interest in the bush after their real estate plans were stymied ? They did the ski infrastructure improvements with the idea that then they'd cash in with major real estate ventures. They turned their attentions elsewhere when they realized how difficult that would be. Perhaps that's a good thing. Picture it....ASC does their thing....and more development follows. Traffic lights need to be strung up and down the valley. Outlet shopping arrives. Traffic like Stowe and Manchester creeps along, horns blaring. Captains of industry grouse and bluster at their table next to you at the Common Man....or their beasty little brats at the pizza joint. Mascara Mountain....meet Mrs. MeanMuffin. Can $100 lift tickets be far behind ? It all becomes a bad dream....and replicates the experience of the very places we ran away from to find our way to the valley. But here's SV, trying to create a coherent, environmentally sensitive master plan for the Lincoln Peak base area that is attempting to address issues the walk-up skier has had for years, and create some controlled real estate ventures that could help create the type of economic benefits that would allow further improvements to the ski experience. The SV folks are putting their money where their mouths are....millions upon millions on the line....for us....and I'm rooting for them.

My wife and I spent a lot of time deciding where to "buy-in" in ski country....and the Mad River Valley simply has no peer in our minds. Year round activities....with an experience that is unspoiled and unparalleled. Somehow the custodians of the valley have kept the place insulated from the sell out that some people term "progress". We're one lucky bunch....depending upon how you look at things. When I think of SB, I think of MRG, and the valley, too. And how they all interconnect and provide something special. Something that is the antithesis of what has become the homogenized New England "Ski" experience. Lucky us...

It is disconcerting to hear about the manangement level disruptions going on...as suggested earlier, generally not a great sign. Hopefully they'll get those things sorted out. All in all, though, a lot of positive stuff seems to be going on at the bush....and in the valley...

 

[Tin Woodsman]

The saying goes (and I believe it to be true) employees don't leave companies - they leave managers.

Good point. I believe it true as well.

Interesting note on the food service management. I heard the hype last fall about the new "food guy". I didn't see anything significant in terms of an upgrade during the season.

Don't tell me you didn't notice the new pizza kiosk in the GH lodge??!! What a joke. What I'd love to know is why they close down the food ops at around 2:30 when I see so many people walk in there after skiing for the afternoon and turn away b/c there's no food left. You tend to work up an appetite skiing all day and it seems silly to me that they'd forego this potential business.

 

[noski]

Re: A few microcosmic and macrocosmic observations....

This thread is really informative....and it got me thinking about a few things as they relate to Sugarbush (microcosmic) and the Mad River Valley (macrocosmic). Alot of the observations regarding individual points as they relate to the SB experience are valid...and offered by the posters in mostly a spirit of positive hopes for an area they love. That's a testament to the place and the people.

I love this guy. You're hired. Lostone and SRO- where do we find more like him?

 

[smootharc]

Re: Hey now....

This thread is really informative....etc.

I love this guy. You're hired. Lostone and SRO- where do we find more like him?

Only my wife gets to say "I love this guy"....and I rarely give her reason to other than under some sort of duress.... :wink:

Forgot to mention in all my ramblings that one aspect of the SB experience I found quite progressive and unusual was their Slide Brook / Wilderness Experience angle. Thought that was cool - though couldn't get in on any last season. Was planning to this year - anyone have any direct experience with the guided wilderness stuff ?

Looks more and more like a AZ Sugarbush day of some sort would draw quite a pack....

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The MRV is mellow and laid back in the summer compared to Stowe or Manchester....I couldn't agree more. So far the real estate prices have remained fairly low when compared to the other ski towns.

Noski..if they decide to make the traffic light at the bottom of the access rd permanent will you join me in a little midnight traffic light repositioning...lol I bet Tin and Spook would help.

I hear Stowe needs another one. Wouldn't they be happily surprised to find a nice new one, barely used, on their doorstep one morning. :lol:

 

[Greg]

Re: Hey now....

Looks more and more like a AZ Sugarbush day of some sort would draw quite a pack....

ALLSKIING/Bob R - are you guys paying attention?! :wink:

 

[castlerock]

That traffic light will be gone when the bridge is finished (I hope)

As for the wilderness tours, go ahead check it out. There is always some cost for knowledge, and at least one of the fellow new posters here is a guide.

If forced to make an educated guess, I'd opine that well less than 10% of the folks that head to Slidebrook, are paying customers.

 

[AHM]

What's right at SB and the backcountry

All: For the guy who pointed out all the good things and not to get lost in minutea (sp), you are absolutely right. I think many post on the problems because they understand the place is on a wing and a prayer and want it to go well. Others want their pet peeve problems fixed. Me: I simply point out observations. That certainly won't change where I ski. The area(and that includes the front/back and MRG) simply has the best skiing in the east, bar none.

The concept of the valley and interconnectedness: Very very true. Here's a great way to hammer that point home: Take the point to point hike of Lincoln gap to App gap in mid October. You'll cross all 3 ski areas and see great views of the valley all the way. As you cross all three, you will not only be psyched to ski, but you'll realize just how interconnected the valley really is and how the areas and the valley all need to work together.......on top of it all.........you'll get a great hike.

Bush backcountry: tip of the iceberg. They do not understand what they have and do not understand yet how to market it. There are a few volts getting to the bulb, but it is just causing a flickering. For those who are new to eastern woods skiing, then a trip with the outback program will be good. But the program needs major expansion, a shift in focus, and whole scaling marketing approach to let eastern skiers know that the bush has great backcountry skiing and the right people (missing at the moment) are there to get them started off on the right foot as they expand their skiing experience to encounter areas not part of the ski area.AHM

 

[castlerock]

Re: What's right at SB and the backcountry

But the program needs major expansion, a shift in focus, and whole scaling marketing approach to let eastern skiers know that the bush has great backcountry skiing and the right people (missing at the moment) are there to get them started off on the right foot as they expand their skiing experience to encounter areas not part of the ski area.AHM

Speak of the Devil....
AHM, what do you mean by the "scaling marketing"?

WIth regards, to the "right people" are you referring to the folks marketing the experience? The Guides?.

Maybe I'll get to share a few runs with you again this early season, and shoot the shxt.

 

[noski]

Noski..if they decide to make the traffic light at the bottom of the access rd permanent will you join me in a little midnight traffic light repositioning...lol I bet Tin and Spook would help.

I will if you guys help me pull the "Irasville" highway signs at the middle and south end of Waitsfield....me getting caught doing that might be bad.

 

[AHM]

CR: Typo was what I did. They need a whole scale improvement in the marketing of the "backcountry". It needs first to be better worked with the Forest service. This is in the works, but I am not sure just how politically savy the person assigned to the task is. The negotiation of the "policy" and "access" is absolutely critical and the right person will need to be performing that function. IF that happens, the sky is truely the limit.

The focus needs to be better understood--ie what are we doing with this. The concept of guided skiing needs to be better understood. What does the guest want/need. The guides approach needs revisiting and the areas approach to the guides and what they wish them to do needs revisiting. The program is a breeze to grow in the right hands..........time will tell if we have "the good hands people". Just look at all current ski mags, the emphasis on "outside the resort skiing" is huge. The bush is arguably sitting on the cusp of this and they need to quickly grab this ball, cement a fantastic program and then get it out there. There were numerous misses last year in this area. Currently, their experience base (from management to guides) is limited from the perspective of guided skiing and what it entails, and exactly what is available. The program building is a whole separate issue. Not sure how many have ever gone guided skiing. As I watch and listen, I feel few ever really have. I also feel that the "commodity" or "resource" is not well understood.........or in other words they have no idea what they have available to them.

Take some runs and bs...........any time. Season starts for me in Dec and will run til end of April this year. My "focus" is shifting a bit this year, but suffice to say I'm sure I'll knock back 30 days at the bush. We can gladly hook up and trade stories and lines. Stacked about 3 cords of wood at my house last night, so that alone tells me that soon the skis will start the fall migration from my basement in upstate NY to VT.........It's a "cattle drive" I always look forward to.AHM

 

[daevious]

Here is the press release. Have at it.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

CONTACT:
JJ Toland
Communications Manager
Sugarbush Resort
802-583-6314
jtoland@sugarbush.com
http://www.sugarbush.com

Sugarbush Resort Prepares For Next Phase of Redevelopment
***

Construction of Clay Brook Residences Expected to Begin by Month’s End

Warren, VT (August 10, 2005)- Footprint site work for the new Clay Brook residences at Sugarbush is expected to be complete by the end of August, Resort officials announced this week. Once the structure’s footprint has been excavated, Pizzagalli Construction of South Burlington will begin building the 133,000-square foot project.

Clay Brook, the flagship building in Sugarbush’s new Lincoln Peak Village, will feature 61 whole and fractional ownership units as well as a year-round dining facility, full valet services, an Owner’s Lounge, and a year-round outdoor heated pool. The Resort has sold fifty percent of the residences and expects to have the facility open to the public for the 2006-07 season. Construction of a new guest services lodge, originally slated for this summer, will begin next spring. Although it was Sugarbush’s intent to open a new lodge during the 2005-06 season, the Lincoln Peak Village project received its Act 250 and local permits later than expected pushing what would have been the first phase’s scheduled opening into March of 2006.

“In light of the new timeline and to provide the best experience for our winter visitors, we decided to construct the Lincoln Peak Village in phases,” remarked Sugarbush’s president of real estate Bob Ackland. “With the opening of the new lodge pushed into spring, it didn’t make sense from a guest services’ perspective to be building two structures simultaneously. The amount of heavy machinery and construction materials in the Lincoln Peak base area would have significantly detracted from the guest experience,” continued Ackland.

The new Lincoln Peak Village is part of Sugarbush’s commitment to not only increase the bed base in the Mad River Valley, but also to greatly improve the Resort’s guest experience. The initial phases of the village will focus on construction of three buildings. The first being the Clay Brook residences with the other two new guest services lodges being built in subsequent construction seasons. When complete, the new base village will offer significantly more square footage for locker and dining space and will offer greater convenience to all Resort guests.

An interim village, consisting of a ticketing facility, ski and ride school, rentals, guest services, and a new 5,000-square foot Sprung Instant Structure(R) to house the Resort’s children’s programs, will be built for this season between the Village Double chair and the Poma surface lift on the future site of one of the new lodges.

“As it exists now, a guest has to walk all over the base area to get what they need to enjoy a day on the hill. The interim village is going to greatly improve our visitors’ experience because it will be a central hub where guests can purchase tickets, get rentals and sign up for ski and ride lessons,” offered Resort president Win Smith. Continued Smith, “Plus, with the new Sprung structure our children’s programs will be gaining an additional 2,000-square feet of space and guests will be able to more conveniently access the beginner slopes and lifts.” With the children’s programs moving to the Sprung structure, additional guest space will be available this year in the Gate House Lodge, Smith said.

Sprung Instant Structures(R) are innovative and highly versatile semi-permanent buildings used throughout the resort world to provide guest services and comfort in all weather conditions during construction phases.

The interim village will be landscaped in the spirit of a mountain hamlet and provide walk-out service on newly-graded learning terrain. The new learning area will have a Magic Carpet surface lift. Expansion of the Resort’s 22-acre parking facility, additional parking behind the Lincoln Peak snowmaking building and significant environmental improvements are also well underway.

Offered Smith, “We have been extremely pleased with our sales efforts to date. Ninety-three percent of our reservations for Clay Brook residences converted to actual Purchase and Sale contracts. That high of a conversion rate is unheard of in this business. People are excited to see this project moving forward.”
-30-

 

[noski]

Nice work, Daevious

You beat me by mere moments in posting the release. Honest, Lostone, I was on it! Good work, and I do think our thread will overtake Guess the Ski Area.

 

[daevious]

www.sprung.com

(thanks, noski--you can have the next one.)

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I'd say that 10% estimate for guided skiers in Slide Brook is probably on the high side. More like 5%, if that. AHM definitely preaches the truth when talking about how this is a huge opportunity for them. The problem, as I understand it, is that any expansion of that program is inherently caught up in Forest Service approval processes - who knows how long that could take or how restrictive the end result could be? I've long been an advocate of running more shuttle buses to and from the Slide Brook Rd. pick up spot. Of course, more people in the SBB will mean less snow for me any my crew, but if the trade off is a healthy and prosperous SB Resort, then I'm OK with that. The SBB is a HUGE area, and new lines will always be found if necessary.

I must say, that I LOVE the fact that they took a cat up the egress road for Slide Brook in early March to smooth out the whoop-de-doos that had formed. Not sure how legal that was, but it was definitely welcomed.

 

[Greg]

Re: Here is the press release. Have at it.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

CONTACT:
JJ Toland
Communications Manager
Sugarbush Resort
802-583-6314
jtoland@sugarbush.com
http://www.sugarbush.com

Sugarbush Resort Prepares For Next Phase of Redevelopment

See....now you guys are making me look bad. How'd you get this PR before me... :-? :x

http://news.alpinezone.com/5117/

Carry on you smarty pants RSN exiles...

 

[thetrailboss]

Re: Here is the press release. Have at it.

An interim village, consisting of a ticketing facility, ski and ride school, rentals, guest services, and a new 5,000-square foot Sprung Instant Structure(R) to house the Resort’s children’s programs, will be built for this season between the Village Double chair and the Poma surface lift on the future site of one of the new lodges.

“As it exists now, a guest has to walk all over the base area to get what they need to enjoy a day on the hill. The interim village is going to greatly improve our visitors’ experience because it will be a central hub where guests can purchase tickets, get rentals and sign up for ski and ride lessons,” offered Resort president Win Smith. Continued Smith, “Plus, with the new Sprung structure our children’s programs will be gaining an additional 2,000-square feet of space and guests will be able to more conveniently access the beginner slopes and lifts.” With the children’s programs moving to the Sprung structure, additional guest space will be available this year in the Gate House Lodge, Smith said.

Sprung Instant Structures(R) are innovative and highly versatile semi-permanent buildings used throughout the resort world to provide guest services and comfort in all weather conditions during construction phases.

The interim village will be landscaped in the spirit of a mountain hamlet and provide walk-out service on newly-graded learning terrain. The new learning area will have a Magic Carpet surface lift. Expansion of the Resort’s 22-acre parking facility, additional parking behind the Lincoln Peak snowmaking building and significant environmental improvements are also well underway.

Sad to see that they are having problems

Oh boy, here we go...more 'temporary' buildings...why do I not like the sound of where this is going? :roll:

 

[Strat]

Seeing as the instability they've gone through so far, seeing something in print seems to me to be a large step in the right direction... at least they have a plan that's clearly laid out at the moment, instead of the hazy ideas that existed before... I don't really see this as a problem, think things are looking better... at least, I want to... wondering about the moving of these facilities to down by the village chair now... hoping that won't cause too much congestion down in that area...

 

[daevious]

Re: Here is the press release. Have at it.

Sad to see that they are having problems

Oh boy, here we go...more 'temporary' buildings...why do I not like the sound of where this is going? :roll:

Sorry, don't understand what you mean--those sound to me like solutions, not problems.