The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Los]

considering all the terrain that is open, I hardly think rim run, FIS and Black Diamond are a huge issue not being open. Even if they were, how do you think they would ski today or all next week for that matter. I am all for the parks and the parks crew. So many kids love the park and if the kids want to ski then the parents get to ski. Every major resort has a park and the data suggests it is a good investment.

Agree with your first two sentences. Could not disagree more with your opinion of the parks. I’d say that at least 80-90% of the “kids” who “love” the park are straight up adult male thugs who have absolutely zero respect for anything or anyone. That’s the demographic being catered to; and it is the demographic antithesis of “family-friendly” (not to mention horrifyingly incongruent with the adaptive skiing program that uses the sunshine quad as their main lift).

 

[Julius]

Nvmind, deleted.

 

[WWF-VT]

Agree with your first two sentences. Could not disagree more with your opinion of the parks. I’d say that at least 80-90% of the “kids” who “love” the park are straight up adult male thugs who have absolutely zero respect for anything or anyone. That’s the demographic being catered to; and it is the demographic antithesis of “family-friendly” (not to mention horrifyingly incongruent with the adaptive skiing program that uses the sunshine quad as their main lift).

Thanks for labeling my kids and their friends as "adult male thugs".

 

[cdskier]

Anyone else commenting in this thread actually ski Mt Ellen ? The best open terrain at Sugarbush has been on natural snow trails at Mt Ellen including Exterminator, Bravo, Cliffs, Hammerhead, Encore and Tumbler. No one is bitching that we aren't skiing the summit chair.

Right. This backs up my earlier statement. Most regulars don't see a lack of summit access at this point an issue. The problem is the negative perception it creates for "outsiders" (for lack of a better term).

I agree the park is needed. People seek this out when they decide where to ski. But... the summit is needed also. Highest legit lift serviced skiing in the state, best view around. People like to say they skied from "the top". They want their money's worth. Those of us in the know realize that 90% of the terrain is accessible from north ridge (and that is really the lift to ski on) but the optics are not good if we are not top-to-bottom. Just my 2 cents.

I think you explained the point I was trying to make better than I did. I agree with everything you said though. I love lapping North Ridge.

 

[ss20]

Agree with your first two sentences. Could not disagree more with your opinion of the parks. I’d say that at least 80-90% of the “kids” who “love” the park are straight up adult male thugs who have absolutely zero respect for anything or anyone. That’s the demographic being catered to; and it is the demographic antithesis of “family-friendly” (not to mention horrifyingly incongruent with the adaptive skiing program that uses the sunshine quad as their main lift).

Wow...lotta fighting words in that post...:lol:

In my experience, the park skiers/riders are some of the most dedicated to the sport. I have a lot of respect for early season when mountains set up temporary parks on ski trails. There's always people hiking up to lap 3 or 4 small rails/boxes. That's pretty hardcore, and that's coming from someone who does the WROD each October/November.

 

[Hawk]

Still it seems odd not having the mountain open top-to-bottom. I get that the summit is quite exposed, but I would’ve figured that they would’ve had that more than well covered for the season already.


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The thing is that there is only so much water and air they can use over there. In the past I have always championed up grades, more compressors, more pumps, more pipe and guns. But now I have given in to the new Philosophy that SB has embraced. I can not affect it so I am going with it. With that in mind they can only blow one trail at a time. The GMVS Trails come first, then the long connection trails from the mid mountain to the bottom, then trails like Elbow and lower rim run. Then comes the choice of the park and other trails They had good snow all November and Early December and then Rain. They made the decision to not do upper Rim Run and it is now not in play. At the time it probably seemed to be a good decision I am sure. Weather is a sh*ty thing. The whole mountain was skiing great before it opened.

 

[Hawk]

Agree with your first two sentences. Could not disagree more with your opinion of the parks. I’d say that at least 80-90% of the “kids” who “love” the park are straight up adult male thugs who have absolutely zero respect for anything or anyone. That’s the demographic being catered to; and it is the demographic antithesis of “family-friendly” (not to mention horrifyingly incongruent with the adaptive skiing program that uses the sunshine quad as their main lift).

You must not ski the park at North very much. That does not describe the people that frequent the sugarbush parks at all. Also I agree that there are a huge group that are dedicated to that sport and are there all the time. You cannot look at the ski areas in NY or Mt Snow, Okemo and the rest down South and compare them to Sugarbush. The people up here are dramatically different.

 

[Keelhauled]

Right. This backs up my earlier statement. Most regulars don't see a lack of summit access at this point an issue. The problem is the negative perception it creates for "outsiders" (for lack of a better term).

How many "outsiders" are at Ellen, though? I would think most of those people are based at Lincoln Peak. And furthermore, they would have all booked their vacations weeks/months ago. Any loss of traffic from people who are turned off by no Summit Quad would have to be people who are both planning their trips days out or the day of, and also are not familiar with the trail layout and the existence of North Ridge. That seems like a vanishingly small subset of Sugarbush's potential traffic.

 

[flakeydog]

Ouch on the terrain park hate.... I am not a park rat by any means but wow... anyway, smart enough to know where a significant part of my bread is buttered. Gotta have the park, it is part of the business and sugarbush has done a good job of attracting that demographic as they should. You could look at places in canada (and some here in the states) where you need to sign up and adhere to the rules (helmets, courtesy, not being a total douche bag, etc are enforced) but this is America, we have a right to be this way as long as business tolerates this behavior. Society doesn't make the rules, revenue does. Only when behavior diminishes revenue does behavior change. Keep the parks and the related expense, it is still a good investment.

I still think that summit should be open. Risk was taken on making snow down low, bad luck prevailed. This is why the ski industry is so hard. You never catch a break and arm-chair a-holes (like most of us here) are not shy about chiming in. Dont worry, I will be at the Bush for the next few days enjoying whatever there is to ski on. My addiction at this point has no cure. I'm a lifer!

 

[dustyroads]

Dedicated skiers or thugs. It's additional income for the Bush and benefits other areas of the mountain. So as long as it attracts skiers to an area I don't care to go and away to the areas I go, then I'm for it.

 

[HowieT2]

I’m blessed to have a family of dedicated skiers, but i imagine there are quite a few families where there r one or more park rats who need to be accommodated in planning where to ski. Can’t have little Johnny refusing to go to sugarbush because there is no park for him to play in.

 

[spring_mountain_high]

As a dad whose son is a long-time, frequent client of Vermont Adaptive, I can state unequivocally that we have never experienced any thuggery at the terrain park, on or around the sunnyside lift or any of the surrounding terrain...in fact quite the opposite, everyone is very cool and accommodating and my son loves to watch people hit jumps and rails while we ride the lift.

Would also like to take this opportunity to publicly thank Win and Sugarbush for their continued support of the program, especially the new facility, as it makes all the difference in getting our family out to ski.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree the park is needed. People seek this out when they decide where to ski. But... the summit is needed also. Highest legit lift serviced skiing in the state, best view around. People like to say they skied from "the top". They want their money's worth. Those of us in the know realize that 90% of the terrain is accessible from north ridge (and that is really the lift to ski on) but the optics are not good if we are not top-to-bottom. Just my 2 cents.

Exactly.

 

[thetrailboss]

The thing is that there is only so much water and air they can use over there. In the past I have always championed up grades, more compressors, more pumps, more pipe and guns. But now I have given in to the new Philosophy that SB has embraced. I can not affect it so I am going with it. With that in mind they can only blow one trail at a time. The GMVS Trails come first, then the long connection trails from the mid mountain to the bottom, then trails like Elbow and lower rim run. Then comes the choice of the park and other trails They had good snow all November and Early December and then Rain. They made the decision to not do upper Rim Run and it is now not in play. At the time it probably seemed to be a good decision I am sure. Weather is a sh*ty thing. The whole mountain was skiing great before it opened.

What is this "new" philosophy exactly? They never had a problem opening the main runs, top to bottom, at ME in the past.

 

[WWF-VT]

FWIW...Summit chair ran today with Rim Run the only open option

 

[jaybird]

Fwiw .. Little Johnny doesn't call the shots in this household.
Sugarbush does a fine job given the restrictions they face.

Have a Happy New Year !

 

[skifree]

my college age kids and friends are park rats.
They are all respectful and a great addition to the mountain.
I enjoy watching them and actually jealous I can't do what they can.
Replacing broken equipment and constant tuning is another thing.

 

[benski]

Win, when will Ripcord’s snowmaking be fixed. I skiing all week.

 

[WinS]

Win, when will Ripcord’s snowmaking be fixed. I skiing all week.

Unfortunately, the excavator we need can't be here until next week, so it won't happen this week. Looks like we are in for a few inches of natural snow tonight, so that might be enough to open it again. Grooming out Sunrise tonight, so some freshies on top of that could be sweet in the morning and Morning Star could be really nice too as it has a great base. We will be winching Upper Organgrinder tonight as well.

 

[Hawk]

What is this "new" philosophy exactly? They never had a problem opening the main runs, top to bottom, at ME in the past.

The new Philosophy is not to upgrade and grow the capacity via larger equipment. Instead it's buy more efficient stuff so they can blow the same amount with less energy thus conserving resources. It is my belief that the new guns do not blow as much and as good as the old guns with more air. But Win and I have debated this before and I do not wish to get into this. Not blowing the top with a deep base was a decision. I think they chose other trails because there was a good base up there before the rain. My guess.....the natural base wasn't good enough for the amount of wind, rain, fog and temps. I guess they chose poorly.