The "Sugarbush Thread"

[urungus]

Eventually season passholders at resorts that offer mega pass access will start to resent the added skier traffic. Especially since they get nothing in return.

Don’t they now get to ski for free at all the other resorts on the mega-pass? For instance, someone with a Mt Snow (Peak) season pass will now be able to ski at Stowe, Okemo, Sunapee. Not to mention all the western resorts on the pass.

 

[urungus]

I'd love to know how many AZers ski their favorite areas on non-holiday Wednesdays (and if so, how many days). My guess is save for a handful of retired people, quite few. People on here acting like it would actually affect their lives to see their favorite place close on Wednesdays cracks me up.

I ski every Wednesday in Jan and Feb at Berkshire East as a chaperone for my kids elementary school ski program.

 

[thebigo]

Not rumors - merely suggesting what are likely rational moves. I'd love to know how many AZers ski their favorite areas on non-holiday Wednesdays (and if so, how many days). My guess is save for a handful of retired people, quite few. People on here acting like it would actually affect their lives to see their favorite place close on Wednesdays cracks me up.

I work from home in central NH. 1 - 2 days midweek I head up to wildcat for first chair, ski as many runs as possible until around noon then head home, if wildcat is just groomers or limited by wind I get my daughter off the bus and head to the crotch for night skiing. I would absolutely steer my family's ski budget somewhere else if either wildcat or the crotch closed midweek - no question.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not rumors - merely suggesting what are likely rational moves. I'd love to know how many AZers ski their favorite areas on non-holiday Wednesdays (and if so, how many days). My guess is save for a handful of retired people, quite few. People on here acting like it would actually affect their lives to see their favorite place close on Wednesdays cracks me up.

I can tell you when I worked in the service industry for 15 years, the answer was basically every week. Midweek was my weekend. Ski country economies are dominated by service industry jobs. So, you are going to piss off a lot of locals. All those locals are the ambassadors for the local hill and offer first hand information on conditions on the local hills when the weekend crowd arrives.

I now work in healthcare. A lot of my customers work weekends in that industry too. Yes, obviously the traffic is limited midweek, but I just again think it's pennywise for major resorts that are already profitable to be contracting services. Small local hills that struggle ? sure. Sugarbush type place? I'm not rooting for contraction.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[tumbler]

If it is Unlimited IKON then there will be a lot of pissed off people. Saturdays were a zoo at South. I can hear it now "the lift system really spreads people out and has more capacity." Been there for over 20 years and last year were the longest lift lines I can remember seeing. If they are going to bring more people in, then they need to beef up the lift capacity- especially gatehouse for the beginners and to get to slide brook lift, more seats to get food at both mountains and better busing between the two base areas. And probably more toilets- see A-Basin.

Edit: I would be surprised if this happened with all the independent ski area ownership championing Win has done over the past few years

 

[EPB]

I can tell you when I worked in the service industry for 15 years, the answer was basically every week. Midweek was my weekend. Ski country economies are dominated by service industry jobs. So, you are going to piss off a lot of locals. All those locals are the ambassadors for the local hill and offer first hand information on conditions on the local hills when the weekend crowd arrives.

I now work in healthcare. A lot of my customers work weekends in that industry too. Yes, obviously the traffic is limited midweek, but I just again think it's pennywise for major resorts that are already profitable to be contracting services. Small local hills that struggle ? sure. Sugarbush type place? I'm not rooting for contraction.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

I hear you and really don't want to drag this into multiple threads. I got called out for rumor mongering and wanted to set the record straight - that's a blatant misread of what I said in the Saddleback thread.

My family is made up of mostly medical professionals, so I'm well aware that not everyone works Mon-Fri like me. I've also indicated that without data, this is a hard issue to truly know anything about - it's more a gut feel. The mere facts that the decision to open for the day creates an observable fixed cost commitment (with limited incremental revenue opportunities via day ticket sales) and that non-resort areas seem to do just fine on limited operating schedules suggest that the economic engine behind ski resort operations are weekend and holiday crowds.

Every place is a unique circumstance, and I've been happy to incorporate many legitimate points along the way from you and others. The finer points on where we disagree should be obvious at this point, which Is perfectly fine. That said, I'm done with this particular discussion, which I'm my estimation, has become too big for its britches and no longer worth the time.

 

[JimG.]

Don’t they now get to ski for free at all the other resorts on the mega-pass? For instance, someone with a Mt Snow (Peak) season pass will now be able to ski at Stowe, Okemo, Sunapee. Not to mention all the western resorts on the pass.

What does a Killington passholder get? We get to ski K and Pico, that's it. Which is fine by me.

But frankly, I don't want a lot of megapass freeloaders skiing at K for 7 days a season and get nothing in return.

So, K would stand to lose me as a customer. What is the benefit to me?

 

[cdskier]

Don’t they now get to ski for free at all the other resorts on the mega-pass? For instance, someone with a Mt Snow (Peak) season pass will now be able to ski at Stowe, Okemo, Sunapee. Not to mention all the western resorts on the pass.

What does a Killington passholder get? We get to ski K and Pico, that's it. Which is fine by me.

But frankly, I don't want a lot of megapass freeloaders skiing at K for 7 days a season and get nothing in return.

So, K would stand to lose me as a customer. What is the benefit to me?

Yea...Ikon and Epic are two very different scenarios (even though they are both mega passes).

Epic is mostly comprised of resorts actually owned by Vail (A-Basin was a notable exception to this before they left Epic). For the most part once a resort is integrated into Vail's portfolio there is no longer a standalone pass for that resort (i.e. no Stowe only pass or Okemo only pass) and the passholder at that resort has no choice but to purchase Epic (and thereby gets the benefits urungus refers to).

Ikon however is a combination of some resorts owned by Alterra and some independent resorts that still have their own passes (i.e. Killington and Sugarbush, etc). So for a place like K or SB to allow unlimited Ikon usage, there would be no benefits to the standalone K or SB passholders (to Jim's point) and you would think they would only allow unlimited usage if the resort itself was actually purchased by Alterra. Otherwise I don't particularly know it would make much sense (for either Alterra or the partner/independent resort). For example the SB standalone pass is not substantially different from the Ikon pass in terms of price. If Ikon offered unlimited SB access, that would cut into SB's own standalone season pass sales as why would people get an SB pass when for a similar price they could get Ikon and get unlimited SB plus access to other resorts.

It would be nice to know what the rumor Hawk was talking about was instead of all this wild speculation now running rampant. Saying you heard a rumor and giving no details might actually be worse than sharing the rumor itself even if it was found to be untrue.

 

[JimG.]

Good clarification I should have used the term "Ikon" instead of "Mega".

For me this is really just a good conversation because if K allowed unlimited access to Ikon passholders I would simply switch to a weekday K pass and ditch weekends altogether in VT. That would be if they continued to offer the midweek pass.

​

It makes little sense for K or SB to go unlimited Ikon but that does not mean it won't happen ever or that perhaps megapass mountains owned by one entity would not close midweek/midweek days at certain portfolio hills. That kind of crap is a direct shot at the season passholder. Eventually a percentage will walk.

 

[Hastur]

What does a Killington passholder get? We get to ski K and Pico, that's it. Which is fine by me.

But frankly, I don't want a lot of megapass freeloaders skiing at K for 7 days a season and get nothing in return.

So, K would stand to lose me as a customer. What is the benefit to me?

Speaking as a megapass freeloader, Isn't that already happening?

 

[WinS]

Haven't heard a peep from the Sugarbush folks about the bees' nests this year; are they building them low on the towers, high on the towers, or are they building them up in Stowe, where they can get a higher rate-of-return when they rent them out over the winter?

The fear is that if the marketing staff doesn't mention the nests, they aren't high [the nests aren't high, that is - no idea about the marketing staff:-D)

Our master groomer sent me a photo of a nest high in his apple tree. He also said that the "old timers say with the plentiful apple season
that is also a sign of a good snow year."

 

[djd66]

Our master groomer sent me a photo of a nest high in his apple tree. He also said that the "old timers say with the plentiful apple season
that is also a sign of a good snow year."

Win -

Can you please clear up the rumor of a rumor that there are some changes happening this season?

 

[urungus]

What does a Killington passholder get? We get to ski K and Pico, that's it. Which is fine by me.

But frankly, I don't want a lot of megapass freeloaders skiing at K for 7 days a season and get nothing in return.

So, K would stand to lose me as a customer. What is the benefit to me?

The benefit to you is that your pass will most likely cost less and you would be able to ski other resorts for free. If Killington were to go unlimited Ikon, then you would buy an Ikon pass instead of a Killington pass, most likely for less money. Then you would still be able to ski all year at Killington, plus you would be able to go to all the other resorts on the pass. Isn’t that what happened at Stratton when they went unlimited Ikon? Their season passes used to be well over $1k ...

 

[Hawk]

Ok then, since Win is now here I guess I can ask him directly.

This past weekend I had more than one local say that your time of owning Sugarbush might be coming to an end soon. I do not know the exact reason they thought this but they were sad about it. Is there any truth to this?

I really hope this is not true. I think that your body of work here has greatly exceeded expectations and there so much more to be done.

 

[JimG.]

The benefit to you is that your pass will most likely cost less and you would be able to ski other resorts for free. If Killington were to go unlimited Ikon, then you would buy an Ikon pass instead of a Killington pass, most likely for less money. Then you would still be able to ski all year at Killington, plus you would be able to go to all the other resorts on the pass. Isn’t that what happened at Stratton when they went unlimited Ikon? Their season passes used to be well over $1k ...

I paid 1K for my Killington/Pico pass. I consider that a good value considering where I live and my proximity to K (less than 3.5 hrs). I supplement that with a NYS 3 in 1 so I get Catskills access at Belleayre and Gore/Whiteface in the Daks.

I'm an eastern skier. No interest in getting on a plane to go ski. I can ski whenever I want so I don't need to roll the dice and hope for powder out west. I see the logic, really I do. I don't need to do that. Lucky I guess.

Ikon doesn't work for me the way it is set up. The only other resort in the east I want to ski is Sugarbush. But I need unlimited access to one of those, preferably K it's an hour closer to home. Sugarloaf and Sunday River are just too far away for me.

And there you have it. So I guess I might save a little if K goes unlimited, and I might ski at Sugarbush a few times. But no pressing incentive for me to switch.

 

[tumbler]

Ok then, since Win is now here I guess I can ask him directly.

This past weekend I had more than one local say that your time of owning Sugarbush might be coming to an end soon. I do not know the exact reason they thought this but they were sad about it. Is there any truth to this?

I really hope this is not true. I think that your body of work here has greatly exceeded expectations and there so much more to be done.

The silence is telling. I did some asking and got the same answer. If it is true, a great run and legacy left.

 

[cdskier]

Ok then, since Win is now here I guess I can ask him directly.

This past weekend I had more than one local say that your time of owning Sugarbush might be coming to an end soon. I do not know the exact reason they thought this but they were sad about it. Is there any truth to this?

I really hope this is not true. I think that your body of work here has greatly exceeded expectations and there so much more to be done.

This would make me sad as well if true. Agree 110% with your last statement too.

 

[WWF-VT]

Maybe we'll learn more from Win's Community Day presentation on Oct 12th

 

[phin]

*crickets* yikes *crickets*

 

[TheArchitect]

Is anyone really surprised that Win hasn't answered a question related to his ownership? If I was him I wouldn't touch questions like that with a 10' ski pole.

As for the rumors/speculation, if SB is sold then I imagine it's to Alterra. I'm sure they're looking to respond to VR's acquisition of Peak Resorts. A announcement of purchasing SB...and more speculation....Jay Peak, sure would do that.

Anyway, if the speculation is true and Win IS selling Sugarbush then I have nothing but thanks and best wishes to him. My favorite resort in NE and it's not close.