The "Sugarbush Thread"

[WinS]

Hi Win quick question for you if you see this.

I'm thinking about bringing the family up Sunday or Monday. I see that you guys have a pretty light grooming pattern going on today, I think something was mentioned about it being due to the warmer temperatures.

Do you have any idea if this pattern will continue through the weekend and next Monday? I personally like it when a lot of the the trails are groomed. If the light grooming pattern will most likely continue through Sunday and Monday I may postpone using my last quad pass for another week. If that's too far out to look forward and predict what you guys will do I totally get it.

Thanks, I'm not complaining, just trying to make the most informed decision I can so that we have the best day that we can up there. You guys know more about running a ski resort than I do LOL

Best, Eric

Hi Eric,

Given the soft snow and the rain yesterday evening we did not groom first shift, so we had a limited plan. Tonight we will be back to a more normal plan grooming 50 trails and so long as conditions permit will continue doing so.

 

[WinS]

I believe today is when Alterra announces their investments for next season. I expect a new lift at Mammoth, Squaw Alpine gondola, timber expansion at Tremblant and expanded/new mid-mountain dining at Sugarbush along with snowmaking upgrades.


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We were purchased after the other Alterra CAPEX budgets were completed, so we are working on this year's plan now. As I have said in the past we have three priorities that we have been focused on and will continue to recommend. This is a resort up process not a Denver down one. First priority is basic maintenance. Second is snowmaking. The master plan is to increase snowmaking capacity at LP and there will be several steps in a multi-year plan. First is to replace the weir (dam) at the Mad River do ensure we can withdraw water into the pond. Second is to move to new and larger diameter pipe on certain trails and to install some Klik hydrants to allow for faster start-up on trails where we have towers. Ultimately, we are planning to build another snowmaking pond and to increase the water capacity up to the mountain to significantly increase our GPM. The third priority is to design, permit and build a new mid-mountain lodge at the Gatehouse plateau and to build a new Glen House lodge for Walt's at ME. Both have the opportunities for summer as well as winter business. As Hawk said this will require local as well as Act 250 planning so the earliest this could be completed would be the for the 21/22 winter season. We will also have to look at a better long-term solution for employee housing rather than renting all over the Valley.
These are our ideas and obviously need to be approved, so don't take them as done.

As you have seen from our season pass announcement we have retained many of our local products in addition to offering the Ikon passes as a replacement for others. Alterra obviously wants consistency across their resorts in important ways, but does not micro manage and looks to the local team to recommend what they feel is best for their resort.

 

[1dog]

We were purchased after the other Alterra CAPEX budgets were completed, so we are working on this year's plan now. As I have said in the past we have three priorities that we have been focused on and will continue to recommend. This is a resort up process not a Denver down one. First priority is basic maintenance. Second is snowmaking. The master plan is to increase snowmaking capacity at LP and there will be several steps in a multi-year plan. First is to replace the weir (dam) at the Mad River do ensure we can withdraw water into the pond. Second is to move to new and larger diameter pipe on certain trails and to install some Klik hydrants to allow for faster start-up on trails where we have towers. Ultimately, we are planning to build another snowmaking pond and to increase the water capacity up to the mountain to significantly increase our GPM. The third priority is to design, permit and build a new mid-mountain lodge at the Gatehouse plateau and to build a new Glen House lodge for Walt's at ME. Both have the opportunities for summer as well as winter business. As Hawk said this will require local as well as Act 250 planning so the earliest this could be completed would be the for the 21/22 winter season. We will also have to look at a better long-term solution for employee housing rather than renting all over the Valley.
These are our ideas and obviously need to be approved, so don't take them as done.

As you have seen from our season pass announcement we have retained many of our local products in addition to offering the Ikon passes as a replacement for others. Alterra obviously wants consistency across their resorts in important ways, but does not micro manage and looks to the local team to recommend what they feel is best for their resort.

Couldn't ask for more really. Clear objectives and benefits to most all. I'm sure there will be lift critiques - can't please everyone. Thx Win.

 

[Slidebrook87]

We were purchased after the other Alterra CAPEX budgets were completed, so we are working on this year's plan now. As I have said in the past we have three priorities that we have been focused on and will continue to recommend. This is a resort up process not a Denver down one. First priority is basic maintenance. Second is snowmaking. The master plan is to increase snowmaking capacity at LP and there will be several steps in a multi-year plan. First is to replace the weir (dam) at the Mad River do ensure we can withdraw water into the pond. Second is to move to new and larger diameter pipe on certain trails and to install some Klik hydrants to allow for faster start-up on trails where we have towers. Ultimately, we are planning to build another snowmaking pond and to increase the water capacity up to the mountain to significantly increase our GPM. The third priority is to design, permit and build a new mid-mountain lodge at the Gatehouse plateau and to build a new Glen House lodge for Walt's at ME. Both have the opportunities for summer as well as winter business. As Hawk said this will require local as well as Act 250 planning so the earliest this could be completed would be the for the 21/22 winter season. We will also have to look at a better long-term solution for employee housing rather than renting all over the Valley.
These are our ideas and obviously need to be approved, so don't take them as done.

As you have seen from our season pass announcement we have retained many of our local products in addition to offering the Ikon passes as a replacement for others. Alterra obviously wants consistency across their resorts in important ways, but does not micro manage and looks to the local team to recommend what they feel is best for their resort.

I really like the idea of the lodge at the top of Gate House. It will serve as a much needed “hub”. I have mentioned this before along with a restored connection between sides. As much as a Glen House rebuild is nescessary, a new Ellen Lodge is also needed. I would think that it would be better to start by expanding base facilities in need of upgrade before moving onto the Glen House. Are you looking at putting snowmaking on Sugar Run? I’ve heard that is in pretty desperate need of snowmaking.


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[TheArchitect]

Win, I hope you know how much we appreciate the information you share with us.

 

[cdskier]

I really like the idea of the lodge at the top of Gate House. It will serve as a much needed “hub”. I have mentioned this before along with a restored connection between sides. As much as a Glen House rebuild is nescessary, a new Ellen Lodge is also needed. I would think that it would be better to start by expanding base facilities in need of upgrade before moving onto the Glen House. Are you looking at putting snowmaking on Sugar Run? I’ve heard that is in pretty desperate need of snowmaking.

Considering that they're moving ahead with the Vermont Adaptive addition to the Ellen lodge, I wouldn't expect a new Ellen Lodge anytime in the near future. I'm sure VT Adaptive has discussed the plans for Ellen's base lodge with SB and wouldn't be spending $2M on the expansion if a new Ellen base lodge was part of any sort of near term plan. I think a new Glen House makes more sense than completely redoing the base lodge at Ellen anyway especially if there's an opportunity to potentially make it a bit bigger. More ROI with that than with a new base lodge which would cost substantially more money than a new Glen House.

 

[Newpylong]

I really like the idea of the lodge at the top of Gate House. It will serve as a much needed “hub”. I have mentioned this before along with a restored connection between sides. As much as a Glen House rebuild is nescessary, a new Ellen Lodge is also needed. I would think that it would be better to start by expanding base facilities in need of upgrade before moving onto the Glen House. Are you looking at putting snowmaking on Sugar Run? I’ve heard that is in pretty desperate need of snowmaking.


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Sugar Run is a fairly short drag through the woods from Riemer if it was critical that it be covered.

Win - has there been any discussion of increasing capacity at Ellen? On the water side that system seems undersized for the acreage covered - but obviously if you're meeting your coverage targets it may me a moot point, but figured I'd ask.

 

[cdskier]

Sugar Run is a fairly short drag through the woods from Riemer if it was critical that it be covered.

Win - has there been any discussion of increasing capacity at Ellen? On the water side that system seems undersized for the acreage covered - but obviously if you're meeting your coverage targets it may me a moot point, but figured I'd ask.

They put park features on Sugar Run, so they must be dragging hoses today to do that.

As for Ellen's capacity...why do I think I remember something about not being able to expand it due to some sort of grandfathered permit?

 

[Slidebrook87]

I remember overhearing a conversation in mountain ops about how crucial beginner terrain at the Ellen side has no snowmaking. I just assumed it was Sugar Run. How much work is it to drag hoses and is it worth it to invest in snowmaking on that trail when hoses can be dragged over?


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[Greg]

Alterra obviously wants consistency across their resorts in important ways, but does not micro manage and looks to the local team to recommend what they feel is best for their resort.

Good to hear. With that said, should we expect daily operations to remain constant (early season trail openings with thin cover, minimal grooming, preserving most of the classic natural snow trails?) I know infrastructure, lifts, snowmaking, etc. are important to some, but I love Sugarbush predominantly for the terrain so I hope that aspect never changes.

 

[dustyroads]

Considering that they're moving ahead with the Vermont Adaptive addition to the Ellen lodge, I wouldn't expect a new Ellen Lodge anytime in the near future. I'm sure VT Adaptive has discussed the plans for Ellen's base lodge with SB and wouldn't be spending $2M on the expansion if a new Ellen base lodge was part of any sort of near term plan. I think a new Glen House makes more sense than completely redoing the base lodge at Ellen anyway especially if there's an opportunity to potentially make it a bit bigger. More ROI with that than with a new base lodge which would cost substantially more money than a new Glen House.

One would think it would be way more cost effective, less disruptive and less time consuming to do the Adaptive addition and new Ellen lodge at the same time.

 

[Slidebrook87]

One would think it would be way more cost effective, less disruptive and less time consuming to do the Adaptive addition and new Ellen lodge at the same time.

^^


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[tumbler]

Glad to hear a new (hopefully expanded) Glen House is in the near future plans. As for the base lodge, it would function better if all the obnoxious race parents and kids weren't clogging it up. Can they go to the GMVS building? How about putting something temporary for the winter in for them? I like the character of the building and that the bar is on the top floor with windows and not in the basement.
Also more happy about the Gatehouse flats lodge. Having that be full service will be sweet. Just add a lift from the intersection of CR runout and Header up to the flats so GH lift isn't the only way there. Nice terrain in there, just need another bridge over Clay brook.

 

[1dog]

but its all south-facing terrain - Orchard and Emerald are good the way they are - maybe a T bar to keep the 'Rock vibe' w shady trees to keep sun off? And maybe more people would leave CR for NL - ok I'm sold.

 

[cdskier]

One would think it would be way more cost effective, less disruptive and less time consuming to do the Adaptive addition and new Ellen lodge at the same time.

I think you missed my point. You're right about what you said, but since they're not doing that, the logical conclusion is that there are no immediate plans to actually have a new Ellen lodge in the near future. If there were, then VT Adaptive wouldn't be spending the $2M now. I'm not personally convinced a "new" Ellen base lodge is needed to begin with. The other lodge items Win mentioned already (top of GH and Glen House) are more of a priority.

 

[Hawk]

So is the Conference Center and Hotel at the bottom near the School House off the table? Just curious. We were thinking that the Wedding and conference revenue coming in year round would virtually pay for it.

 

[tumbler]

So is the Conference Center and Hotel at the bottom near the School House off the table? Just curious. We were thinking that the Wedding and conference revenue coming in year round would virtually pay for it.

I bet weddings will make a huge profit center for the Gatehouse flats lodge. And form what Win wrote they must be thinking about he new Glen House for this.

 

[dustyroads]

I think you missed my point. You're right about what you said, but since they're not doing that, the logical conclusion is that there are no immediate plans to actually have a new Ellen lodge in the near future. If there were, then VT Adaptive wouldn't be spending the $2M now. I'm not personally convinced a "new" Ellen base lodge is needed to begin with. The other lodge items Win mentioned already (top of GH and Glen House) are more of a priority.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying ether. I just see a lot of shared expenses being lost. Starting with permitting, legal, engineering, excavation, demolition, ground utilities and going forward.

 

[Hawk]

I bet weddings will make a huge profit center for the Gatehouse flats lodge. And form what Win wrote they must be thinking about he new Glen House for this.

The issue with that is they need to either install a gondola at Gate House or install a road to shuttle the guests. Any weather or cold basically a disaster for the wedding party. If I was paying Thousands to have a wedding I wouldn't book without either of these.

 

[cdskier]

The issue with that is they need to either install a gondola at Gate House or install a road to shuttle the guests. Any weather or cold basically a disaster for the wedding party. If I was paying Thousands to have a wedding I wouldn't book without either of these.

I know they've done ceremonies at the top of GH in the past and I've personally seen guests for a wedding going up the GH lift for the event (one was the same day as Brew fest a few years ago). Depends how they do it, but you could always have a base area location as a backup option in case of inclement weather that would make getting up GH challenging.