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The "Sugarbush Thread"
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
gostan
New member
The original approved site plan did include some retail and restaurant space, but it appears that they are changing the type and order of construction. I am sure that there will be a new retail/restaurant component, but when is the question. The entire 93 unit project is definitely a long term project. I understand that Win did state that 25% of the EB5 investors have been paid from Rice Brook proceeds.
http://www.warrenvt.org/depts/drb/2...l - Phase 2 Subdivision Survey 2012_09_06.pdf
http://www.warrenvt.org/depts/drb/2...l - Phase 2 Subdivision Survey 2012_09_06.pdf
I don't disagree, but there are shops and restaurants in sugarbush village, which this development will tie into the base area. As it stood before, there was a barren decrepit parking lot between the two. Not only does the development include residences, but also a new ski bridge and regrading that will make it much more palatable to grab a bite in the village for lunch or head there for apres. the existing restaurants, Chez henri and pine tree pub, in the Sb village need some love, and the increased traffic should facilitate that. dont get me wrong, I love chez henri, but its dated.
ThinkSnow
Member
The food and staff are still top-notch.
no doubt. I just dont see a lot of enthusiasm amongst my crew and guests to go for french food for lunch, apres or dinner. we eat there once every couple of years.
I agree that this will help. In all the years I skied at Sugarbush I NEVER ventured over to that village. I drove through it during the offseason once and was surprised by how much is there, but I never did anything other than that because of said parking lot.
dlague
Active member
The pub definitely needs an over haul. However it does have an old school feel.
mrvpilgrim
Member
One interesting note from Saturdays Community Day talk
It is not anything currently on any sort of construction schedule but they are looking into the possibility of a new lodge at the top of the gate house chair
It is not anything currently on any sort of construction schedule but they are looking into the possibility of a new lodge at the top of the gate house chair
Smellytele
Well-known member
I have skied there a dozen times and never even new it existed either. I have even stayed at condos up past there and had no clue it was there.
old school as in the downstairs smells like the bar in my college fraternity
exactly. The underlying issue, is that Sugarbush Resort does not own Sugarbush Village. That being said, with the new development, the gap between the two will be bridged, literally and figuratively. The Out to Lunch trail goes right by the village on its way back to the base, so there is no reason it shouldnt be an option for lunch or apres. As it stands, there are chez henri (french), PT pub (sports bar with room for live bands), pizza (takeout), Mutha Stuffers (subs), sugarbush day care, mountainside ski shop.
steamboat1
New member
Pretty much the same. I only drove up there once in the off season years ago. Don't think this will change much for me since I have no intention of buying a residence up there. Screwed up years ago when I could've picked up a condo dirt cheap. I think this was just before ASC bought the place. If not for ASC lot's of people thought Sugarbush would close.
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WWF-VT
Well-known member
ASC and Les Otten owned Sugarbush from 1995-2001. ASC spent a bunch of money then neglected Sugarbush when they couldn't go forward with their development plans and the ultimate ASC financial meltdown. Win Smith / Summit Ventures bought Sugarbush in 2001 and that's what brought the mountain back from the edge.
steamboat1
New member
Yes but before ASC bought the place it was widely rumored Sugarbush was closing as in not opening at all. You could pick up a condo for under $10 grand back then. Win has done a lot of good things with the place but I don't think there was ever a threat of Sugarbush closing when ASC had it. In fact most of the improvements you see to this day at Lincoln are from new lifts that ASC installed. I think the only new lifts Win installed is the Green Mountain Express at Ellen & replacing the Castle Rock chair at Lincoln. I really don't care much about new residences & a base lodge. In fact the new base lodge wasn't much of an improvement.
with all due respect, you dont know what you're talking about. the new gatehouse lodge, timbers restaurant and claybrook were huge improvements, not to mention the farmhouse and schoolhouse buildings. you may not care about lodges and real estate, but it is the profits from those which pay for new lifts and capital investment in the snowmaking system, which I assume, you do care about.
As for ASC, after they invested all that money in the new lifts, there development plans were scuttled by the community and they orphaned the mtn. No marketing, no maintenance. the place would have gone under, if win and company (or someone else) hadnt taken it over.
steamboat1
New member
Which new lifts? As I stated most of those were installed by ASC. As for snowmaking it was ASC that constructed the 63 million gallon water pond for snowmaking, not Win. I don't see much in improvements to the mountain since Win took over. If the new residences are so profitable where is all that money going? The only thing I see is construction of more new residences & that's with EB-5 money not profits.
Tin Woodsman
Well-known member
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Then you're not paying attention.
True, the only new lifts since Win arrived are the new GMX and the CR double replacement. But in addition to those, Win has invested in the Gate House Lodge, Farm House and School House, none of which have any residential real estate component but are instead focused purely on skier services.
In addition, there have been pretty extensive upgrades to the snowmaking infrastructure. Certainly not enough for my preference, but arguably well above depreciation. This has included 100% turnover in their snow guns, re-digging the snowmaking pond after it got nearly destroyed in a hurricane, a new main feeder pipe from said pond to LP, and a whole host of less glamorous stuff (pipes, valves, pumps) that are critically important but which don't have sex appeal.
And while perceptions of it being an improvement or not will vary widely, they have presided over the largest expansion of on-map tree terrain in SB's history.
Next year, assuming no hiccups from the economy or the permitting process, their 3rd lift will be installed in the form of the replacement for the Valley House double. Moreover, a gander at their long-term forest management plan with the USFS makes for interesting reading with potential new lifts, new trail pods and new on-mountain lodges.
I think most SB fans would like to see more progress on the on-mountain stuff, but then again most of us were not privy to the degree of deferred maintenance Win inherited. Moreover, SB had neither a modern base lodge nor viable skier services and ski school facilities. Even the capital legacy from ASC was a double edged sword. Sure they got to enjoy the major investments ASC made in upgrading LP's snowmkaing and lift infrastructure, but most of that snowmaking pipe was bunk and has had to be replaced. Furthermore, when you consider that SB had exactly zero pillows it controlled at the base - very much of an anomaly in today's resort environment - it's not hard to see where and why they've prioritized their investment dollars.
you do realize that when Win took over, the ski school and rentals didnt even have buildings. yes, that's right, they were housed in rented temporary structures. the old gatehouse was awful. the snowmaking system, pipes, pumps, etc. inherited from ASC was garbage. They literally had to replace all the pipe from the pond to the base.
and if you want to get technical, in addition to the GMX they replaced the northridge double with the current NRX hsq (which was the old green mountain lift).
I've been going regularly for about a decade and when I started the infrastructure was a disaster. definitely, not up to par. You can't say that now. It is a legitimate 4 season resort, such that people are willing to plunk down 600-800k for a 3 bedrooms at the base.
and when youre talking about all the development, we are not talking about building on the scale of what has gone on at Jay or Stowe. this most recently announced phase of the project is all of 15 units. So I dont think they are swimming in profits not being reinvested.
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