The "Sugarbush Thread"

[cdskier]

I don't think Sugarbush should continue touting their 7 million snowmaking upgrades. I know Sugarbush normally starts out slow, but this is awful.
How can Ikons crown jewel ski resort in the east have the same vertical and terrain acreage open as Wachusetts? Wachusetts is a good ski area but its not Sugarbush. I imagine the temperatures in Princeton aren't nearly as cold as Warren Vermont. Plus Wachusetts doesn't have the elevation like Sugarbush.
So how can both mountains have the same amount acreage open if Sugarbush just dumped 7 million for upgrades?

For another comparison...Belleayre in the Catskills has 26 trails (10 miles/83 acres) open. So double the number of acres as Sugarbush...

Not to say the $7M Sugarbush spent wasn't meaningful and important in the grand scheme of things...but when the limiting factor is smaller windows of cold weather to make snow in the early season, the only upgrades that will ultimately matter are ones that allow you to pump more GPM out on the hill at once to take more advantage of those smaller windows.

 

[Hawk]

The trails that are open and have snow on them have new pipe and guns from upgrades this year and previously. Also the 7 million was not all about snowmaking. They did a bunch of lift maintenance. I would be the first to bitch but this year the weather really has not cooperated. I am holding on my judgement so far. I am waiting to see what Altera does in the furture. People need to realize that this is sugarbush and not some snowmaking mega giant. Not yet at least. Be patient.

 

[Newpylong]

It hasn't been everyone's year so far either. Killington had 3 blowouts and lost irreplaceable snowmaking time. They're behind the pack too, Cup or not Cup.

 

[RH29]

For another comparison...Belleayre in the Catskills has 26 trails (10 miles/83 acres) open. So double the number of acres as Sugarbush...

And that's where my season will begin tomorrow! Pretty shocking that Belleayre of all places has the highest % of open terrain in the East and is in the top 5 for most acreage.

 

[Kingslug20]

Belleayre is usually underrated...it can be pretty good for a day.

 

[HowieT2]

same thing every year. Sugarbush is not a snowmaking giant and what limited capacity they have is divided between LP and Mt Ellen. Whatever has been made over at Mt Ellen is sitting untouched and the trails/acreage that would be open are not reflected in the current stats until mt ellen opens for business in a few weeks.

meanwhile, temps this week look unhelpful. at the least the pond should fill up.

 

[nhskier1969]

same thing every year. Sugarbush is not a snowmaking giant and what limited capacity they have is divided between LP and Mt Ellen. Whatever has been made over at Mt Ellen is sitting untouched and the trails/acreage that would be open are not reflected in the current stats until mt ellen opens for business in a few weeks.

meanwhile, temps this week look unhelpful. at the least the pond should fill up.

I am not saying Sugarbush is a Snowmaking giant. I am comparing Sugarbush vs Wachusetts open terrain. I would consider Sugarbush a top 5 resort in New England. I wouldn't consider Wachusetts(nothing against Wachusetts) a top five resort. So how can a Small mountain in Mass have the same snowmaking production output as a Large ski resort in New England plus Sugarbush has the advantage with cold and elevation. They shouldn't be touting their snowmaking upgrades when the end results is the same.

 

[urungus]

I am not saying Sugarbush is a Snowmaking giant. I am comparing Sugarbush vs Wachusetts open terrain. I would consider Sugarbush a top 5 resort in New England. I wouldn't consider Wachusetts(nothing against Wachusetts) a top five resort. So how can a Small mountain in Mass have the same snowmaking production output as a Large ski resort in New England plus Sugarbush has the advantage with cold and elevation. They shouldn't be touting their snowmaking upgrades when the end results is the same.

FYI, it’s “Wachusett”. They usually punch above their weight in snowmking, two years ago they were first to open in the Northeast: https://www.telegram.com/story/spor...-opening-northeast-goes-wachusett/6389756002/

 

[thetrailboss]

I am not saying Sugarbush is a Snowmaking giant. I am comparing Sugarbush vs Wachusetts open terrain. I would consider Sugarbush a top 5 resort in New England. I wouldn't consider Wachusetts(nothing against Wachusetts) a top five resort. So how can a Small mountain in Mass have the same snowmaking production output as a Large ski resort in New England plus Sugarbush has the advantage with cold and elevation. They shouldn't be touting their snowmaking upgrades when the end results is the same.

One thing I will say is that when you look at a map you see that the runs at Sugarbush are much, much longer top to bottom. For example, the Jester -> Deathspout -> Lower Deathspout -> Coffee Run route is probably over three miles. Even trying to do something off Valley House or Bravo is probably over 2 miles in length and requires a lot of coverage. At Ellen (which has a MUCH better set up for early and late season) you are still looking at probably 3+ miles from top to bottom of wide terrain. Sugarbush is tall and has looonnnnggg runs that require lots of time to open. Even with more pumping capacity you still have a lot to cover.

Back in the day folks would get all excited when Woodbury (CT) opened, but there is no comparison--it is a hell of a lot easier to open 10 acres and one pitch than 3 miles and much more acreage.

Wachusett, as said, has a powerful system but let's be honest--they only have to get ONE lift to get going and maybe a 1-1.5 mile straight shot (or two runs) to get open. That's way easier than Sugarbush.

Granted in all my years as a Sugarbush passholder I really wanted them to open early, but if the weather ain't there or if the cold spells are short than it is frustrating. Stowe spent a ton of $$$ on their snowmaking but even there their runs are relatively straight up and down and still shorter than top of LP down to the base. I may be mis-remembering Stowe, but my recollection is that the Four Runner is about a mile in length and the runs off of it are on the 1-1.5 miles long.

 

[Kingslug20]

Stowes main runs are pretty wide and take at least a week of blowing. Liftline is a monster and the gondi area is huge..

 

[jaybird]

Not to mention .. WaWawa has an actual water supply that doesn't rely on a dam.

We're not yet at 'the day of infamy' ..
Get Bravo open and smiles appear !

4pm update .. today was woeful..

 

[ducky]

Taking Back the Mountains (Published 2022)

Big resorts are crowded, pricey and exclusive. But some skiers and snowboarders are trying to reclaim their sports by building a culture that is more inclusive and sustainable. Here’s how.

www.nytimes.com

Written by local backcountry skier, David Goodman.

 

[slatham]

If the bush were serious about being an early season contender, they’d focus on Mt Ellen off Summit lift. As it is they are content with just having something open for Thanksgiving.

 

[thetrailboss]

If the bush were serious about being an early season contender, they’d focus on Mt Ellen off Summit lift. As it is they are content with just having something open for Thanksgiving.

That ship sailed about 15 years ago.....

 

[doublediamond]

Exactly.

They used to open first on Mt. Ellen. But since the development at Lincoln Peak, it’s been Lincoln Peak first. It’s just not “sexy” tot heir hotel clientele to have to shuttle a couple miles for early season skiing.

Ignoring financials, is it feasible to do a Base-to-Base gondola if/when Slidebrook kicks the bucket?

 

[1dog]

Taking Back the Mountains (Published 2022)

Big resorts are crowded, pricey and exclusive. But some skiers and snowboarders are trying to reclaim their sports by building a culture that is more inclusive and sustainable. Here’s how.

www.nytimes.com

Written by local backcountry skier, David Goodman.

Well,

I can't get onto site, but expect that the title/sub-title says it all - skiing , especially at large resorts, has always been pricey and expensive. Soon as I hear or read the words sustainable and inclusive, you can bet they want to use someone else's money to subsidize someone else's skiing and subsidize the energy to turn lifts and make snow. If you're a writer tho- using those words will get you a better chance at getting published. Meanwhile his backcountry skiing guide for NE was a good read.

 

[thetrailboss]

Exactly.

They used to open first on Mt. Ellen. But since the development at Lincoln Peak, it’s been Lincoln Peak first. It’s just not “sexy” tot heir hotel clientele to have to shuttle a couple miles for early season skiing.

Correct.

Ignoring financials, is it feasible to do a Base-to-Base gondola if/when Slidebrook kicks the bucket?

No. The SBX was a negotiated deal involving SB, USFS, and the State. It is what it is. Any replacement would have to follow that line.

 

[cdskier]

If the bush were serious about being an early season contender, they’d focus on Mt Ellen off Summit lift. As it is they are content with just having something open for Thanksgiving.

I'm not so sure that ME Summit would be considered "early season contender" material. ME has less GPM than LP as far as snowmaking. This year I don't see them having been open any earlier (actually I'm not even sure a single ME summit route would have been done when they had GH open...the last bit of Lower Rim Run was looking pretty thin on the cam when GH opened). Even right now, unless they had shifted focus at ME to skip making any snow at lower elevations, they'd have maybe 2 or 2.5 routes at best off the summit with downloading required on GMX. Is that better than what they have at LP right now (essentially 1 route on VH plus 1 3/4ish routes off GH...but at least no downloading needed). And I think they're a lot closer to getting more stuff open at LP than they would be to having more ready at ME. At ME there isn't even any snow made at the base of North Ridge yet, never mind at the base of GMX. Do they still have to make snow at Inverness at ME as well for GMVS commitments? If so that also hurts the ability to get too much else open earlier at ME. (No cam pointed at Inverness so I can't see what, if anything, was made there yet).

 

[JimG.]

Belleayre is usually underrated...it can be pretty good for a day.

Let's keep Belleayre out of the Sugarbush thread.

 

[SteezyRob]

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