Yeah, I'd be really disappointed that I could not ski the truly iconic Zip/Rob Roy run.
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The "Sugarbush Thread"
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
If it was just one day 1.5h, I wouldn't say anything, but it's a constant problem with all lifts on the mountain. GMX was down last year for quite some time considering it's the base lift. If I remember correctly, the story was they started the season with one of the two back-up diesels down but they decided not to address it as one back-up was enough. Then the second went kaput in the middle of the season and they had to wait for parts. Shouldn't they start the season with all lifts (especially the one that supplies the mountain) in top shape?
BTW going back to the 1.5h - no one on the mountain could tell me what's going on and how long it would take to fix. How is it that the information desk has no information on why all lifts are down? When I was there, no one was working on Inverness, and I knew it's been broken for weeks, and they were turning people away from GMX. There were no signs anything would eventually go. After the 90 min break, did they start up NRX and Summit, too? Because without those lifts looping a malfunctioning GMX is not much fun.
I don't know why everybody acts like it's normal for a resort to have this many problems. I skied all over the world and the last time I experienced this level of disfunction was in the 80's in Czechoslovakia and Romania. Things were also working much better under Win's management. Also skied at Smuggs for years - much older lifts, but they kept running.
Again...you're blowing things way out of proportion and comparing apples and oranges. I skied most Saturdays at ME last year and that would not have been the case if GMX was "down for quite some time". And wasn't the motor issue a previous year? I don't think that was last year. Either way your argument there is somewhat irrelevant. Many lifts only have 2 motors. A primary and an emergency. GMX is a somewhat rare lift that has 3 motors (2 motors capable of fully powering the lift plus the emergency backup motor). The year the primary electric motor had issues, they didn't just ignore it. They were actively trying to fix it and I believe ultimately had to convince their insurance company to fully replace the drive for it. So that year it ran on the 1 diesel as the primary (which is a royal pain in the ass and not exactly cheap to run on diesel for an entire season). So saying they were simply "choosing" not to fix the electric motor that year is just ignorant.
As for NRX/Summit today...wasn't NRX on wind hold this morning? (and maybe Summit too but I can't recall for sure). Also seems a bit odd to expect the information desk to have details about why a lift is closed or what the ETA on the fix is. I'd expect them to know a lift is closed, but I would never expect them to know the details about a mechanical issue and how long it will take to fix. The mechanics themselves may not know that until they finish diagnosing the issue. Some things may be easy to determine an ETA, others are not depending on the issue.
Bottom line...I disagree with the notion that SB/Alterra intentionally is taking shortcuts with the lifts at ME...
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Hawk
Well-known member
I guess next time don't buy a discounted pass. Buy the full pass and you can ski both. I think that the old saying, you get what you pay for is sadly in play.
To be honest, I had no idea there were issues at North . But then again I don't ski north unless it is entierly open and in good condition. Or if I go skinning there and the lift is not in the equation.
To be honest, I had no idea there were issues at North . But then again I don't ski north unless it is entierly open and in good condition. Or if I go skinning there and the lift is not in the equation.
There was a bad year or two under the previous ownership where they were having issues with lift maintenance but were able to hire more mechanics and get it under control. Bravo would be broken every Saturday. It does feel as though ME is not a priority like LP is, it is only open for about 3 months, that's less than Magic! They have done some work on the lodges and a NRX replacement is desperately needed but just a little more love over there would go a long way. It's funny to think back before '95 ME was the main mountain and LP was the ignored one that was late to open and early to close. Summit is the best spring chair.
Hawk
Well-known member
I need to cavet this post. My friends at patrol said Sunday that they pulled a bunch of people out of the woods this weekend. Keep in mind that not everybody is an expert skier. Depending on your ability and exactly where you skied, the woods were very mix and really hard if you didn't not know what you were doing. IF the snow was untracked and you were high up it was fine in most places. The lower you go the breakable crust was chalenging. I ran into two people that were seriously hurt on Saturday. Keep in mind that the snow depth is only about 24" or less. Typically 36" is about when things get safe. Just trying to keep things real.
I guess we're all different. I'm not here to convince anyone about anything. I prefer skiing at ME. If I can't ski there, I'll go to a different resort. I was already on the edge for this season but figured I'd give them another chance. I'll skip the next few years until they get their lifts to an acceptable level (hopefully). I'm just pissed, because that's the closest mountain to me and I really like that place.
I guess we have different experiences. I can't remember ever skiing in a resort in a western country where it was OK to have major lifts broken down for several days in the middle of the season. Here it happens all the time. I think GMX was out last year for two weeks or at least for two weekends in a row. You had to get up with Inverness. I also can't remember the last time when all four major lifts operated normally on any given day at ME. I don't think that's OK.
Anyway rant over. It's not going to change anything anyway.
So I'm going to jump in here on Ellen. I was a Mount Ellen Plus passholder my last few years at Sugarbush (2008-2011). You all know that I love "North". Now that the disclosure is done, I've got to say I agree with erdb1 that having GMX, Inverness, and NRX down on a weekend day is very problematic and frustrating. It is statistically odd to have one of these lifts down, but all three is really bad. And just because he bought a "discounted" season pass does not justify having lift malfunctions of this magnitude or frequency. The pass was discounted because the season at Ellen is already too short. It is not an assumed risk that lifts will routinely break down and that access to the lift-served terrain will not be available. As someone joked, it is almost as bad as Magic. That does not sound like an Alterra product to me. Their whole strategy is to offer folks a more premium experience than Epic.
Everyone here on this thread believes that Sugarbush is a premier east coast destination ski resort. But what gives it the 100+ trail count, the 2,700+ vertical foot drop, and 2,000+ acres of terrain is Lincoln Peak AND Mount Ellen. Having both is a real selling point. The fact that 2/3 of the visitors don't go to Ellen is a real shame because both ends of the resort compliment each other well.
I have to think that there are two issues. One is getting qualified help to maintain and repair the lifts. The cost of living in Vermont is high and the pay is low. For this kind of skilled trade, especially in an international company, there are better opportunities at Alterra's other western resorts. Hell, even before Alterra, Win made it known that getting help was a real problem. The second issue that I am seeing is that, like Vail, Alterra is focused on investing in their western areas right now and buying more areas. They just bought Schweitzer and another ski area in California. As I have somewhat joked, they just spent a ton of money on a top-to-bottom gondola at Steamboat which I think was unnecessary, especially when there are other needs right now at their other areas. And if that was not enough, they installed a new HSQ at Steamboat this past season. I don't believe that they have done much, if anything, at Stratton or Tremblant. So Sugarbush is an eastern area and is way down on their list to get some love. At least Heaven's Gate is a go this year. As a Sugarbush skier at heart, I'd rather have seen a new NRX and Heaven's Gate than a top-to-bottom multistage gondola at Steamboat. But it's their money and their decisions.
Hawk
Well-known member
Yes everyone is different. And yes you have that right to ski where ever you want. Mt Ellen has always had issues and NRX is probably the worst. All I am saying is for a few hundred more you get flexibility. What is the big deal? Most people spend more on one trip out west. Take control and reap the benefits.
What was the price difference between the passes? I was surprised to hear that the Ellen-only pass was even still an option.
oldfartrider
Active member
The the Ellen only pass u can ski at LP early and late when Ellen isn’t open. You r just restricted to Ellen when it is open.
Hawk
Well-known member
It is $900 now but I am sure it was like $800 early on. The Ikon renewal for me was $1,100.
$800 for a Mount Ellen only pass? That seems high to me. Good for them for trying to offer a locals option that was at a lower price point, but I agree with "what's the point?" when one could get an IKON for not much more. I was thinking something in the $500ish range for Ellen only.
Hawk
Well-known member
Maybe there was something else they offered earlier. I am just going off the website.
I completely understand your frustration. But before I wrote off a mountain that I liked that was also the closest to me, I'd take my concerns up the ladder. Talking to a person at the information desk won't do anything. That person has little to no decision making ability. Send an email to John Hammond illustrating your concerns which sound reasonable to me. If I were him, I'd respond by saying something along the lines of "We are aware of and working on the issue and it's of paramount importance to us. In the meantime, I'd like to offer you, a long time passholder, three days of tickets for you to ski at LP that you can use at your discretion....I'd ask that you use them on days where you don't feel the lift situation at Mount Ellen is commensurate with your expectations, but it's up to you...would that be okay with you?"
And if he doesn't say something like that, I'd ask for just that and let them say no. Bottom line is that to me, writing Sugarbush off without telling them won't affect their bottom line, but it will affect your life. And the worst thing that could happen is they say no (which leaves you right where you are now) and the best thing is that they can offer you something to make the situation better for you (and them as they retain a passholder).
No one said it was "ok", but I still think you're over-exaggerating. I like ME a lot and as a result spend a considerable amount of time there. NRX without a doubt has been problematic for a while and I already stated I was disappointed to hear they seem to have pushed replacement of that back a year. Honestly I think that lift needs replacement more than HG at the moment and should have been a higher priority.
I checked my notes from last year and GMX was down a little over a week in mid-Feb. Looks like it was a motor issue where it had to be shipped out for repair and then still had problems when it came back. Ultimately a $40 part fixed it, but it was a a complicated diagnosis apparently. Inverness was fine during that time though from what I recall and once you were at NRX/Summit, it didn't matter much that GMX was down (again I'm not saying it was ideal, but the entire mountain was still accessible at the time).
My issue though is comparing that issue last year to the 1.5 hours it was down this weekend and thinking one has anything to do with the other. This weekend it could have been down for something simple that failed and needed replacement (a sensor or even a bearing on a lift tower for example). There are many things that can go wrong that are not at all indicative of a lack of proper maintenance. That's where I have an issue with the implication that they're cutting corners at ME. Now if GMX starts going down repeatedly, then there's cause for concern with that lift. But one isolated incident is not a sign of a larger problem.
I do agree more transparency is needed, but at the same time I also don't think we're owed an explanation for every single maintenance issue. For example I do think sharing why Summit was down multiple days last weekend would be appropriate. But I don't think an isolated (at this point) issue on GMX from yesterday needs an explanation. The story with Inverness would be good to know as well. Maybe it isn't even a lift issue and is a staffing issue. That wouldn't surprise me either.
Rumor has it Inverness had an electrical fire, so I was surprised when it actually started spinning yesterday when emergency called. Maybe there was a workaround on a backup motor. I won’t pretend to be in the know, just conveying what I heard.
I will say there hasn’t been any skimping on snowmaking this year. If anything I’m always amazed at how much base gets put down for a perpetually cold mountain that closes to the public by 4/1 and private events a bit later. Inverness is a whole separate program, and maybe my memory sucks, but I’ve also never seen whales like those on Inverness and Brambles recently. Is GMVS aiming for a June 1st dual slalom or what? Also interesting that they chose to put a few randomly interspersed tower mounted fan guns in on the upper portions of the trail as part of their upgrades; was the 480V power already there?
On the related topic of things my memory doesn’t serve me well on, in the early days of Slide Brook chair under ASC that lift used to occasionally run by or before mid December. I think I have a note of riding it on 12/8 one year. That just makes me wonder if the operational and safety policies have changed and evolved over the years? In some ways the overall experience is better with that lift, some ways worse, but definitely different.
I will say there hasn’t been any skimping on snowmaking this year. If anything I’m always amazed at how much base gets put down for a perpetually cold mountain that closes to the public by 4/1 and private events a bit later. Inverness is a whole separate program, and maybe my memory sucks, but I’ve also never seen whales like those on Inverness and Brambles recently. Is GMVS aiming for a June 1st dual slalom or what? Also interesting that they chose to put a few randomly interspersed tower mounted fan guns in on the upper portions of the trail as part of their upgrades; was the 480V power already there?
On the related topic of things my memory doesn’t serve me well on, in the early days of Slide Brook chair under ASC that lift used to occasionally run by or before mid December. I think I have a note of riding it on 12/8 one year. That just makes me wonder if the operational and safety policies have changed and evolved over the years? In some ways the overall experience is better with that lift, some ways worse, but definitely different.
This is exactly why I'm worried that these break-downs will eventually present a safety issue. Obviously the lift wasn't ready to run, otherwise it would have been running already, but they fired it up out of necessity...
Were you actually there in the afternoon? I'm really curious when things started spinning again and which lifts were running at the end. As I said, when I was there, there were no signs things would run again. They were handing out refunds for tickets, rentals and classes and everyone was leaving the mountain.
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