The "Sugarbush Thread"

[deadheadskier]

so i dont get it... the green mountain express used to be there, then it was gone and now it is back

That is because Les Otten wanted to have the lift end at the Slidebrook lift. So he moved the GMX to Northridge and installed the slowest quad in the world from the bottom to the Junction of Slidebrook and Northridge.

He may have liked it. Nobody who skied there did.

The Northridge change was good, as that is the real vertical at North, but Pokey made the bottom almost unused.

When Summit Ventures took it over, one of their furst announcements were that they were going to put the GMX back in. It was announced to cheers. :beer:

Okay good, I haven't fully lost it.


I skied Sugarbush this year for the first time in many years as they had the $25 Wednesday tickets at north and I didn't have a pass, so it was a great value. I definitely recalled the last time I skied there that the lower lift ended at Slidebrook. I remember skiing back then and being all excited about the ASC 28 mil, 19 new lifts (kidding) upgrade when they bought the place and thinking - why in the hell do you have to take three lifts to get to the summit? Then I went back last season and it only required two, which was a pleasant suprise.

I don't know what in the hell Otten was thinking then, but I'm glad they returned things to the way they once were.

Sugarbush to me is the biggest travesty in Eastern Skiing. It has the best combination of natural snow and terrain in the east, but suffers terribly from mis-management.

 

[castlerock]

I ran into Jeramiah at the one I was at.

.

Hey Goober, wipe that drool off your face!

Probably the same party, Jeremiah is a geek! So are you gonna be buying a unit in the Village at Clay Brook, as it appears they are trying to speed the housing up by a year.

By the way have your teeth stopped chattering from the Nantucket Run?

 

[castlerock]

Maybe they want to get that revenue in for the housing quicker. Why go and cut down the hillside in back of Gate House anyway?

I think you are right on the revenue side of things. They probably can't carry the construction costs for two years without revenue.

I believe that they did the cutting to allow skier flow, as the main Village building goes almost all the way to the current baselodge. I think the the plans call for a snowless pedestrian area between the baselodge and the hotel/condos.

 

[thetrailboss]

so i dont get it... the green mountain express used to be there, then it was gone and now it is back :-?

EXACTLY!!! :wink:

Seriously, great ASC logic... :roll:

The ORIGINAL GMX is now the North Ridge Express, which was moved during the big $28 mill expansion in 1995 or 1996. Doppelmeyr installed a slow fixed grip quad in its place which ran to the base of the new Slide Brook and North Ridge Chairs, making early and late season skiing at Ellen unfeasible. Locals know that North Ridge NEVER ran right...breaking down almost weekly because Doppelmeyr did not reinstall all of the components correctly (they came back to the office with a box of parts saying, "we don't know where these go" :lol: ). BTW Poma renovated this lift in 2002 (it was a Poma lift of course) and she's run much better since then.

In 2002 the current regime installed a BRAND NEW GMX Express which Poma built. It is a nice lift and once again allows for late and early season skiing.

So yeah, one step forward, two back. The end result is a good set-up but probably too much lift capacity for the configuration. No complaints since to ski the full mountain one only needs to ride two lifts (one fast, one slower) instead of three (two slow, one fast) :roll: .

 

[ski_resort_observer]

design

Personally I thought the design of the Lodge at Lincoln Peak, also known as "lodging attempt #2" was beautiful although maybe alittle too "western" looking. Again, personally speaking, would like to hear other comments on this,

I thought the design of the current developement was just plain ugly. It is very boxy and looks like it belongs in an urban setting than Vermont. The "barn look" doesn't work as the scale is way out of wack for a farm.

To be fair the west side(from the mountain) looks pretty cool but it's the east side that looks bad. For awhile they had a image of the building on the Sugarbush site, from the parking lot, superimposed at the base...it looked bad. Not surprised they removed it. The architectual pics on the website make it look much nicer than it will when built. Just my 2 cents.

Noski...can you handle a #4?

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't know what in the hell Otten was thinking then, but I'm glad they returned things to the way they once were.

He was thinking of directing traffic to Lincoln Peak, which still happens because much of the condos and other junk is over there. He also was probably thinking of that much of the traffic was going to be coming from the SB Express, so they would be skiing the upper two thirds and not interested in the bottom section (including Lower FIS and Inverness Areas). He was also probably thinking of turning the lower area, with the slow quad, into beginner terrain, which is dumb because that basically takes traffic from these less-used areas to an even lower amount which means even more lost $$$$ with lifts and snowmaking operating down there for less skiers. He also made it more difficult for one to ski the full mountain, which IMHO is the biggest asset to Ellen.

Sugarbush to me is the biggest travesty in Eastern Skiing. It has the best combination of natural snow and terrain in the east, but suffers terribly from mis-management.

Yes, people get quite passionate about the mountain. We have a hate-love relationship with them I guess...seems that they are thinking about something different than what we fans want...but at some level, it is a Catch 22 for them I guess :roll:

 

[loafer89]

I just remember riding the new Green Mountain Express chair in January of 1991, boy was that thing fast.

 

[thetrailboss]

I just remember riding the new Green Mountain Express chair in January of 1991, boy was that thing fast.

Both still are.

 

[thetrailboss]

Leaflet in the 1993-1994 Sugarbush brochure:

...and this pond was built in 1995 by ASC. Another story: it was permitted to be quite deep, but in a pinch to get it done and done cheaply, ASC dug it shallower than permitted. As a result, the pond ran dry in 2001-2002 and the current company had to re-dredge it the next season. Some more GREAT ASC planning :roll: :x

 

[castlerock]

Re: design

I thought the design of the Lodge at Lincoln Peak, also known as "lodging attempt #2" was beautiful although maybe alittle too "western" looking.

The "barn look" doesn't work as the scale is way out of wack for a farm.

To be fair the west side(from the mountain) looks pretty cool but it's the east side that looks bad.

I'm in agreement with all three comments, especially the barn look comment. If they go through with it as planned, I believe it will have a "disney-like" or maybe just artificial ambience.

I think the barn motif, is a hangover from the Lodge. The lodge had a motif (CCC grand Lodge), but in reality it was a genre.(said lodge). When doing the new plans, I'll bet the designers felt that since Win and Co, were fired up about a motif, that the new plan should have one as well.

The old plan worked as it was something real, the new one won't (from a design perspective at least) as it is a charachiture.

 

[noski]

Barn-like Lodge

Two thoughts on this topic- first, you have to admit it will be different than any other resort anywhere. The Vermont vernacular will lend well to public relations and press writing. Second- maybe you give the guest too much credit. Not all of the Valley's guests are as sophisticated and savvy as those in this forum. They may just eat it all up and think it is the coolest thing they have ever seen.

I think we have to keep an open and positive mind- and dialogue- and pull for this all to work for the benefit of the mountain and Valley. There. done.

 

[castlerock]

Re: Barn-like Lodge

I think we have to keep an open and positive mind- and dialogue- and pull for this all to work for the benefit of the mountain and Valley. There. done.

Agreed, I want Summit Ventures to be succesful, I want the valley to thrive and the project to work out.

My critique is one of style only. And I felt it obvious the first time I saw the plans, last "community weekend". In fact if they just struck the Silo from the design, it would be fine. That is the obvious artifice in the plans.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Some of us do not have to be so politically correct as others. I am neither savvy or sophisticated. The valley's guests are much smarter than you give them credit. They know fake when they see it.

Use your magic powers to improve the boxy westside of the building. It looks like a big boxy hotel from an exit along an interstate highway. Ok...a big boxy hotel with an out of scale cuppola. Where do the plastic cows go.... :lol:

Castlerock you a freeheeler?

 

[dmc]

Castlerock you a freeheeler?

Castlerock is a hardcore skier... An awesome tourguide of Sugarbush delights...

Just don't ask him if he works for Snowbird

 

[castlerock]

Snowbird was my ski home before the Bush, and I have been accused of working for their PR department. At least I don't work for CSC! (nyaa, nyaa, you guys got second!)

It is interesting looking at the Avatar, it appears I could be do a tele turn. But that is only resizing distortion. I do have a tele set up, but it is big time old, with Asolo leather boots on an old pair of Dynastars.

 

[dmc]

At least I don't work for CSC! (nyaa, nyaa, you guys got second!)

Never thought CSC would win the tour... But it's still cool we sponsor a team..

Whaddya work for Lance Armstrong or something?

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah, I want SB to succeed as well. My concern with their new strategy is that they don't know what they are getting into...a higher income clientele are going to be very demanding ("my hot chocolate is not hot enough"...."there are too many bubbles in my champagne"....etc, etc) so any gains will be lost. I just don't want to see locals priced out.

Jet-set skiers will also head to Europe or the west if the skiing isn't good...locals will be there on a whim.

 

[djspookman]

I just don't want to see locals priced out.

too late for that.. There's a lot of real estate for sale in the valley right now, just nothing "touchable" for a first time buyer like myself

I'm keeping my ears open for news on the construction though..


dave

 

[thetrailboss]

I just don't want to see locals priced out.

too late for that.. There's a lot of real estate for sale in the valley right now, just nothing "touchable" for a first time buyer like myself

Seems like the rest of my home state is going that way...

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I just don't want to see locals priced out.

too late for that.. There's a lot of real estate for sale in the valley right now, just nothing "touchable" for a first time buyer like myself

I'm keeping my ears open for news on the construction though..


dave

When I was looking to buy in the valley, about 5 years ago, you could buy a nice Village Gate 1BR for 25K. I recently saw a similar unit going for 45K, when one is available. The trouble with condos is that dang monthly condo fee.

Just like in Jackson Hole where workers commute from Idaho(25m) over Teton Pass or thru the Snake River Canyon from Star Valley(45m), both dangerous routes in the winter, more and more Sugarbush workers are commuting from Granville, Northfield and Bristol to find more affordable houseing.

The interesting thing when you compare real estate prices in the valley with Stowe, Burlington and Manchester, prices in the valley are still resonable comparably. Find something now before prices REALLY go up.