The "Sugarbush Thread"

[ducky]

Moved here for winter but now love summer 3-1. Swim, hike, and mtb every day.

Here's the story of B&B Bagels. https://www.sevendaysvt.com/food-dr...-in-waitsfield-by-young-entrepreneur-42443493

 

[Hawk]

I figured you have traveled for skiing Ducky. That surprises me.

 

[Plowboy]

Does anyone know if our exit from Slidebrook is going to be working for us as usual or is there going to be trouble with the road being in use? Anyone know anything about this?

Slidebrook Road to the new house is being plowed and sanded on a regular basis.

 

[Hawk]

Yep not even worth the trip.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

Yep not even worth the trip.

sounds like I will wait for you and Treeskier to set the exit track...

 

[Boxtop Willie]

FYI, it's been raining all day. Just drove by the Mad River, it;s running noticeably harder and higher than it was yesterday.
Forecast calls for another 9 hours of liquid refreshment before this event is over. Currently 40 degrees in Fayston.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm 100% on the lack of communication. It's marketing and PR 101, it might be tough sometimes but it is almost always better than not saying anything. I like Getskied's point about SB getting annoyed with the rumors. The Valley has always been about rumors so just be more transparent and there won't be as many rumors about SB. I find it arrogant that they feel they don't need to communicate proactively and instead do it reactively and take their customers for granted.

I am not surprised. How many years have folks been complaining about the snow reporting (or lack thereof)? Of course for operations, Win was very transparent and direct. So yes, this is a huge change. I think it reflects the harsh reality of going from an independent owner to one who was just adding Sugarbush to the portfolio and is focused on other areas.

I'm with Hawk and maybe it drives some folks away and we can have less crowding. I'm happy that there is a new HG lift but would like Alterra to step up with a 3-5-10 year capital investment plan for SB. Or if SB management has it to share it.

So yes, having less skiers would be nice. Unless you are a local who relies on the traffic. There are a lot of local businesses who are struggling as it is. So Sugarbush cutting back on ski season, here on both ends, only makes stick season longer.

As to capital improvements, I am still skeptical. When the sale to Alterra was announced in 2020, I said "buckle up." A few responded that I was being the IKON hater in saying that. I think many expected Alterra, with its financial resources, to take a lot of things of the "must fix" list and to improve on what had been built. The expectation was all the benefits of deeper pockets but none of the drawbacks of being in a conglomerate. How is that working out so far? Well, the first thing that Alterra did was fire Egan and the other local pros. It was called cost cutting. Then they made some improvements to snowmaking but the same issues remain. Then there was an announcement about replacing Heaven's Gate AND North Ridge. Hell, folks were excited that BOTH would be done the same year. And then NRX was delayed to 2025 and now is not even on LiftBlog's radar (and Peter KNOWS what is going on). Last season ended with a lot of terrain closed early for the new lift and it not being relayed in a proactive way. Now they are limping, at best, into the start of the season for a myriad of reasons--some controllable and some not. As to the latter, there was no consideration as to pivoting. I do think that thawed out ground and a lack of water are bad coincidences, but when every other ski area is open that looks bad. It is worse when your owner is a multi-billion dollar entity.

So I think it is still mixed, at best. A step back from where SB was at the worst. The only reason why some of you here are rationalizing things and more understanding is because you can drive down to Killington now or go to Maine. Under ASC that was the same.

When I started this thread 20 years ago it was because I loved Sugarbush and a significant number of folks here were passionate about Sugarbush itself. Hell, it was a small group of loyalists who took it indy from ASC in 2001. Though I have long left, SB is still in my blood. I was there for over a decade. So even if I was still at Sugarbush I would still be pretty disappointed as it was my home. Even when I had an ASC "All East" Pass, I would tell folks that I was a Sugarbush skier. While I can see myself, if I was there, making the drive to Maine or Killington I'd still be pretty mad because SB would be in my backyard.

The tea leaves I am reading don't look too good. IKON sales were down this year and flat in 2023-2024. Alterra has closed on A-Basin and is about to dump foolish money at Deer Valley. Solitude is limping along with not much snowmaking going on and hordes of IKON passholders skiing limited terrain. Surely a deep-pocketed owner would be investing in at least making as much snow as possible there, but it is not happening.

Closer to home, the three NE properties have needs and in a tough business and weather environment. Take a look at Tremblant--most of the lifts are pushing 30 years old. There's been talk here about Stratton and its extensive terrain offerings (and how it has been busy). Guess when most of their lifts were installed? Yep, the go-go late 1990's and early 2000's. And meanwhile lifties have to manually push chairs around NRX and its replacement is now "TBD." My sober assessment is that things will remain static at best for Sugarbush and that's disappointing. I would expect resources to continue to go elsewhere. That said, hope springs eternal.

 

[Carl_Greig]

14:30 Today.

 

[ducky]

I also just came from the pond. The weir is flowing but due to the water being brown, they have the bladder inflated waiting for it to clear, or so I was told.
The guy working there told me it would be ready when it was ready, very helpful.

 

[Lotso]

Pond at ME looks great. Should be able to light up a lot of hydrants once temps allow. Likely the rest of SS and then Northstar, plus whatever holes there are on RR/Elbow/WW.

 

[thetrailboss]

14:30 Today.

What's with the second photo, the one named "Bleh"? Is there supposed to be a face superimposed on the image?

 

[Carl_Greig]

What's with the second photo, the one named "Bleh"? Is there supposed to be a face superimposed on the image?

I'm new, is this against the rules?

 

[MadPadraic]

I'm new, is this against the rules?

Thank you for posting these. You've done us a solid.

 

[tumbler]

We are deeply invested in the Valley and have been part of it for almost 30 years. I am well aware of the terrible business climate that the Valley is in now and it stinks. There is no place for employees to live. See my rant about this many pages back. I care very about SB, it is where I ski and have fun and want it to succeed and be the best it can be. It will never be perfect but just tell what is going on. Doesn't have to be the whole story but just something.
We also love summers, they say you come for the winters but you stay because of the summers.

 

[Carl_Greig]

Thank you for posting these. You've done us a solid.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[SurfMoon]

A slight topic change here, I'm thinking about the days to come when the snow is deep and we are all in our happy place. Does anyone know if our exit from Slidebrook is going to be working for us as usual or is there going to be trouble with the road being in use? Anyone know anything about this?

We took a lap through door 3 last Saturday and the lower road was plowed, gave ourselves a nice stone grind on the exit road out opposed to hiking the last 1/4 mile out- just enough snow on it to not completely toast the bases. I believe it was similar last year for the end of the exit- ride high on the snowbank on right of the road. Woods skied great on the upper 1/3, middle section quite rocky few core shots to show for it, bottom well, should've taken another lap but the drainages mid lap were pretty rocky and ruthless. Remember no busses until the 20th plan ahead if you are venturing. Really fun lap down Lynx before heading into the backside.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm new, is this against the rules?

No, you're good. I just wasn't sure if it was a joke or something.

 

[Carl_Greig]

No, you're good. I just wasn't sure if it was a joke or something.

 

[Cheetah440]

I am not surprised. How many years have folks been complaining about the snow reporting (or lack thereof)? Of course for operations, Win was very transparent and direct. So yes, this is a huge change. I think it reflects the harsh reality of going from an independent owner to one who was just adding Sugarbush to the portfolio and is focused on other areas.

So yes, having less skiers would be nice. Unless you are a local who relies on the traffic. There are a lot of local businesses who are struggling as it is. So Sugarbush cutting back on ski season, here on both ends, only makes stick season longer.

As to capital improvements, I am still skeptical. When the sale to Alterra was announced in 2020, I said "buckle up." A few responded that I was being the IKON hater in saying that. I think many expected Alterra, with its financial resources, to take a lot of things of the "must fix" list and to improve on what had been built. The expectation was all the benefits of deeper pockets but none of the drawbacks of being in a conglomerate. How is that working out so far? Well, the first thing that Alterra did was fire Egan and the other local pros. It was called cost cutting. Then they made some improvements to snowmaking but the same issues remain. Then there was an announcement about replacing Heaven's Gate AND North Ridge. Hell, folks were excited that BOTH would be done the same year. And then NRX was delayed to 2025 and now is not even on LiftBlog's radar (and Peter KNOWS what is going on). Last season ended with a lot of terrain closed early for the new lift and it not being relayed in a proactive way. Now they are limping, at best, into the start of the season for a myriad of reasons--some controllable and some not. As to the latter, there was no consideration as to pivoting. I do think that thawed out ground and a lack of water are bad coincidences, but when every other ski area is open that looks bad. It is worse when your owner is a multi-billion dollar entity.

So I think it is still mixed, at best. A step back from where SB was at the worst. The only reason why some of you here are rationalizing things and more understanding is because you can drive down to Killington now or go to Maine. Under ASC that was the same.

When I started this thread 20 years ago it was because I loved Sugarbush and a significant number of folks here were passionate about Sugarbush itself. Hell, it was a small group of loyalists who took it indy from ASC in 2001. Though I have long left, SB is still in my blood. I was there for over a decade. So even if I was still at Sugarbush I would still be pretty disappointed as it was my home. Even when I had an ASC "All East" Pass, I would tell folks that I was a Sugarbush skier. While I can see myself, if I was there, making the drive to Maine or Killington I'd still be pretty mad because SB would be in my backyard.

The tea leaves I am reading don't look too good. IKON sales were down this year and flat in 2023-2024. Alterra has closed on A-Basin and is about to dump foolish money at Deer Valley. Solitude is limping along with not much snowmaking going on and hordes of IKON passholders skiing limited terrain. Surely a deep-pocketed owner would be investing in at least making as much snow as possible there, but it is not happening.

Closer to home, the three NE properties have needs and in a tough business and weather environment. Take a look at Tremblant--most of the lifts are pushing 30 years old. There's been talk here about Stratton and its extensive terrain offerings (and how it has been busy). Guess when most of their lifts were installed? Yep, the go-go late 1990's and early 2000's. And meanwhile lifties have to manually push chairs around NRX and its replacement is now "TBD." My sober assessment is that things will remain static at best for Sugarbush and that's disappointing. I would expect resources to continue to go elsewhere. That said, hope springs eternal.

The Deer Valley plan blows my mind. Like, it’s so bad it’s beyond comprehension bad. On every level. It may actually take Alterra down. Maybe that’s a good thing for Sugarbush.
Doesn’t anyone know a Billionaire who loves skiing? I mean WTF, I thought they were everywhere.

 

[djd66]

The negativity on this thread sucks (mine included). Some way, some how we need to turn this around. Is All we need is a big 2’ dump? That would do it for me!