The "Sugarbush Thread"

[thetrailboss]

because everyone is piling on altera and IMHO its premature to conclude that they are starving SB for capital investment.

FWIW Alterra has been showing signs recently of weakness. IKON sales were flat, if not down, last season. I would not be surprised if this year is the same. They quietly canceled a big project at Mammoth. Other resorts that had ambitious plans are slowing down. It is what it is. I certainly hope that SB gets more love.

 

[Quietman]

Typically the insurance company will start with a lowball offer and the insured only get the coverage they paid for if they have the time and money to fight. (That’s what you are doing daily, right?) … Alterra has plenty of lawyers so I’m confident they will get a fair payout.

Both times when my parent's home and vacation home had fires (vacation home was an arsonist), insurance company offers were way too low. Only after my parents hired adjusters and had a few battles, did they recieve fair settlements.

 

[Hawk]

Says you? Because they havent paid for and installed a new lift at SB since.....last season.
I'm not here to defend Altera. They may be the worst corporate owner ever. I don't know. Am I disappointed they didnt replace the NRX? absolutely. That frankenlift has needed to be replaced for many years prior to altera's stewardship. I'm not going to blame them for shutting down summer mtn biking when it obviously wasnt attracting enough customers, myself included.
The biggest issue was the delayed opening of the lifts last year and I don't think any of us know what the story was behind that debacle. But IMHO, I doubt it was altera not funding the summer maintenance. It wasn't a capital expense.

I'm up here a lot. I am friends with and hang with many locals. What I am saying is not speculation. It's the opinion of people who live and work up here. The downshift is not a bunch of internet chatter. It's what the people are thinking. I'll give them some slack I guess but what was promised when Win left is not the reality of what we got. Things are not that much better. Worse in some aspects.

 

[HowieT2]

FWIW Alterra has been showing signs recently of weakness. IKON sales were flat, if not down, last season. I would not be surprised if this year is the same. They quietly canceled a big project at Mammoth. Other resorts that had ambitious plans are slowing down. It is what it is. I certainly hope that SB gets more love.

Yeah, the economy nationwide is in a rough stretch. I'm sure the ski industry is anticipating recessionary conditions on top of the loss of visitors from Canada and Europe. Vegas and Florida have already seen major tourist declines.

 

[mikec142]

What I am saying is not speculation. It's the opinion of people who live and work up here.

I'm making a tiny bit of fun here...no offense intended. These two sentences strung together are fantastic.

 

[cdskier]

Yeah, the economy nationwide is in a rough stretch. I'm sure the ski industry is anticipating recessionary conditions on top of the loss of visitors from Canada and Europe. Vegas and Florida have already seen major tourist declines.

Agreed. I'm not ready just yet to simply place full blame on Alterra putting SB at the bottom of some priority list and deciding SB isn't important to spend any money on. I think there's a lot of factors at play. Yes, they promised a lot when they first took over. But a lot of things outside their control have also happened since that time.

 

[cdskier]

I'm making a tiny bit of fun here...no offense intended. These two sentences strung together are fantastic.

LOL. I almost pointed out that same thing!

 

[Newpylong]

The thing to note about NRX is that if some longevity can be gained out of that lift by finally resolving the terminal issues or at least band-aiding them with an extra employee during operating hours, then if I were Alterra it would a VERY hard sell to pull the trigger replacing that lift in this environment.

 

[HowieT2]

I'm up here a lot. I am friends with and hang with many locals. What I am saying is not speculation. It's the opinion of people who live and work up here. The downshift is not a bunch of internet chatter. It's what the people are thinking. I'll give them some slack I guess but what was promised when Win left is not the reality of what we got. Things are not that much better. Worse in some aspects.

I'm sure people are talking after the season they had with the lift maintenance issues and cancellation of NRX replacement, not to mention the employee housing situation. And I'm not saying its baseless speculation. I just think its premature given that Altera did in fact install a new heavens gate lift last year.
Just for reference, Win and Co. owned the place for about 20 years. During that time, they put in 4 new fixed grip lifts (correct me if I'm wrong, valley house, village, castlerock and sunnyD?). That's a new lift every 5 years. Altera has done 1 in a few years. The NRX is a detachable which are about 2-3 times the cost of a fixed grip. There's a reason they keep trying to squeeze more life out of the NRX and its not that altera is abandoning the resort.

 

[cdskier]

Don't forget the new Tommy's Toy replacement! While only $500K, it is still something being done. They also have done some significant investments in snowmaking core infrastructure. The problem with the snowmaking investments is that realistically some did not really lead to "visible" changes. However if they had not been done, there would have potentially been a negative visible impact.

 

[shawnanigans]

The thing to note about NRX is that if some longevity can be gained out of that lift by finally resolving the terminal issues or at least band-aiding them with an extra employee during operating hours, then if I were Alterra it would a VERY hard sell to pull the trigger replacing that lift in this environment.

What's wrong with NRX? Chair spacing getting messed up when leaving terminals?

 

[crystalmountainskier]

FWIW Alterra has been showing signs recently of weakness. IKON sales were flat, if not down, last season. I would not be surprised if this year is the same. They quietly canceled a big project at Mammoth. Other resorts that had ambitious plans are slowing down. It is what it is. I certainly hope that SB gets more love.

Would love to see a source on Ikon sales being down. Numbers have never been publicly released.

 

[thetrailboss]

Would love to see a source on Ikon sales being down. Numbers have never been publicly released.

It came from a statement made by Mike Maughan Alta last fall. I heard him say it to employees at an orientation. He also stated that Alta pass sales were down. I’m pretty sure he said the same thing at a recorded Alta Town Meeting and in a blog post IIRC that I posted here somewhere. The context was that pass products had hit a price point that consumers were balking.

 

[kbroderick]

Don't forget the new Tommy's Toy replacement! While only $500K, it is still something being done.

Half a million here, half a million there, pretty soon you're talking real money.

 

[machski]

It came from a statement made by Mike Maughan Alta last fall. I heard him say it to employees at an orientation. He also stated that Alta pass sales were down. I’m pretty sure he said the same thing at a recorded Alta Town Meeting and in a blog post IIRC that I posted here somewhere. The context was that pass products had hit a price point that consumers were balking.

Hmmm, didn't realize Alta was owned by Alterra. Oh wait, they aren't. Seriously doubt he has full access to iKon pass sales as such. He may be inferring that from iKin scans at his resort, but I doubt Alterra shared that depth with partner resorts.

 

[machski]

FWIW Alterra has been showing signs recently of weakness. IKON sales were flat, if not down, last season. I would not be surprised if this year is the same. They quietly canceled a big project at Mammoth. Other resorts that had ambitious plans are slowing down. It is what it is. I certainly hope that SB gets more love.

If the big project you are talking about was the Main Base redesign, that wasn't just Alterra killing it. It was running into strong permitting headwinds and personally, I wasn't convinced it was the smartest idea. It is back into the planning phase as it is something they want to address, but no longer on the tip of the spear.

 

[thetrailboss]

Hmmm, didn't realize Alta was owned by Alterra. Oh wait, they aren't. Seriously doubt he has full access to iKon pass sales as such. He may be inferring that from iKin scans at his resort, but I doubt Alterra shared that depth with partner resorts.

He was speaking as an IKON pass member resort and talking about the overall sales numbers in general terms, not specifics. He said it to staff in training and also reported it to the Alta Town Board. I've paraphrased it many times here. You weren't there so how can you know what he said?

 

[jonnyco14]

I received a survey last week as a homeowner in one of the condo from Sugarbush through the Sugarbush Homeowners Coalition They were asking about resort development priorities such as more terrain, new lifts, etc. They specifically called out terrain expansions or lift upgrades.

"If your household had to choose one capital project to prioritize, what would it be and why?"​

 

[1dog]

I received a survey last week as a homeowner in one of the condo from Sugarbush through the Sugarbush Homeowners Coalition They were asking about resort development priorities such as more terrain, new lifts, etc. They specifically called out terrain expansions or lift upgrades.

"If your household had to choose one capital project to prioritize, what would it be and why?"​

Build anything you want to help connect a very disconnected SB Village and condos- I'm sure there were roadblocks, but that village was either placed in the wrong location, or the original designers wanted it exclusively for the condo owners, but if lift(s) surrounded it, that place could potentially hop. I don't know if the terrain allows it - Out To Lunch is it- but my guess is 75% of SB skiers have no idea that even exists. Certainly make condos more valuable ( and more taxable, unfortunately)

 

[skithEEEast]

A new lift in the village or something bigger like reviving the general stark expansion would be way more interesting than replacing NRX, which is a redundant lift anyway. Unofficial way to ski between Sugarbush and mrg would be nice