Timeshares

[VTKilarney]

Exactly. They are going for like $100 on eBay for Snowbird.


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In the winter when you'd want to ski?


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[deadheadskier]

I've never been on a timeshare pitch, but from what I have heard you were VERY lucky to be done after 45 minutes.

It was September, the slowest month of the year for St. Thomas. I was very honest with the lady that she could have 45 minutes of my time and not a second more.

 

[Hawkshot99]

So reading on hrre, the people who actually have them and first hand knowledge seem to like them, the rest sat in 1 meeting, or heard from others tgey are bad....
My parents have 3. They love them and use them all the time. Only 1 of them has actually been used where they "own" in aruba becauee they just love going back. They just got back from 2 weeks in St Thomas last week.

 

[joshua segal]

So reading on hrre, the people who actually have them and first hand knowledge seem to like them, the rest sat in 1 meeting, or heard from others tgey are bad....
My parents have 3. They love them and use them all the time. Only 1 of them has actually been used where they "own" in aruba becauee they just love going back. They just got back from 2 weeks in St Thomas last week.

Negative. Owned one in FL (bought for $1 on Ebay). Got rid of it after a couple of years. What I said was from the perspective of a former owner - not hearsay.

 

[manhattanskier]

Do you all think it makes sense to get the quarter share at Hunter Mountain? The place looks really nice and it is only 2 1/2 away so we could go there all the time. Also, my life and I are freelance musicians so we usually can go weekdays and maybe rent it out on weekends. With our baby coming it would be nice to have a place my family can go and not worry about stuff. What you all think?


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[deadheadskier]

I would opt for a house share / rental for a year or two and weigh whether buying is worth it or not after that experience.

 

[HowieT2]

I would opt for a house share / rental for a year or two and weigh whether buying is worth it or not after that experience.

agreed. It's a commitment and everybody's life circumstances are different and change over time.

 

[manhattanskier]

You are all so wise.


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[joshua segal]

One of the things I like about owning fully is that I can leave all my stuff there. Now as to shared space, such as quarter shares, different people have different standards of cleanliness and that can be a real point of friction.

 

[frapcap]

*Disclaimer- this isn't meant to convince you to buy a timeshare or to start an argument. I'm just laying down why my timeshare works for me.

I've owned a timeshare with RCI for about 8 years now. I have a 'home' resort, but have never actually been there. Mine is 'points' based and I exchange the points like currency at the cost of $200 domestic, $300 international for a week at a property. I've used the thing all over the country for skiing, as well as St Thomas, Costa Rica, Canada, and on a cruise.

Here is how I justified the purchase and how I sold it to myself as a good investment for me:
The purchase price was $13,xxx. An average annual vacation lodging cost at a hotel or resort is more than 1-2 grand on its own. With the timeshare, I get at least one bedroom, a fully appliances kitchen, and a (typically) higher quality facility. I like being able to grab local fruits/vegetables from the roadside, fishing in the ocean, and preparing my own dinners. In addition to the enjoyment that brings me, we spend less on food.
I also figured that if I ever had children and a family, we'd never have to tell them we couldn't afford vacation that year.
I don't really look at it as a bad investment at all. If anything, I liken it to prepaying for vacations because once its paid off, the lodging only costs 200-300 bucks for a week for the rest of your lifetime and whoever you leave it to when you pass away. True, there are maintenance fees every couple of years to the tune of $600-$800, but even including those brings the annual cost to ~$2,800/yr- about the same price of lodging as 1-2 vacations a year. However, once you're paid off on the timeshare purchase price, it really starts working for you and you can make some return on the investment by going on each vacation later in life much more cheaply.

In addition, I can also purchase 'extra vacations' that cost between $100-$250 for a week at a property they couldn't fill. Even if I only use the weekend for skiing and the place stays empty for the remainder of the week, its still cheaper than an equivalent ski area hotel cost for 2 nights.

My next big use will be going to Hawaii and staying in a beachfront condo for 2 weeks for the total lodging cost of $800.

As I mentioned, it works for me, but may not work for everyone.

 

[BenedictGomez]

^The thing is though, if you put all that info into a spreadsheet and included the time value of money (as a proper financial calculation should), the all-in cost has been a lot more expensive than it seems you think it is. Maybe if you use it religiously for a few decades and don't "skip" years, it could work out (maybe), but there's probably not many folks who do this. I know people who have had one for about 6 or 8 years now, and they've only been using it every-other-year. That kills them on it whether they realize it or not. Realistically speaking, assuming you calculate the math correctly, I think it's extremely challenging for anyone to come out ahead on one of these things versus simply booking lodging deals each year. The genius in the timeshare sales, is that's it's very easy to make it seem like a great deal.

 

[SkiFanE]

One of the things I like about owning fully is that I can leave all my stuff there. Now as to shared space, such as quarter shares, different people have different standards of cleanliness and that can be a real point of friction.

Do they have cleaners in between weeks? No way I would rely on another owner to clean. Some people's idea of cleaning is a swiffer and Clorox wipes, I wouldn't feel clean in my own place if that was the case.

 

[VTKilarney]

I thought that it was a given that these places were professionally cleaned and run more or less like a hotel.

I've focused on the negatives of a timeshare. But there is a positive: convenience. You pay your money and you show up. Finding lodging deals takes some time and effort. Sometimes just a little, and sometimes more. I don't mind putting in the time and effort, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[deadheadskier]

Do they have cleaners in between weeks? No way I would rely on another owner to clean. Some people's idea of cleaning is a swiffer and Clorox wipes, I wouldn't feel clean in my own place if that was the case.

When I was a kid before my folks bought at Okemo, they did a seasonal half share for two years. This was the late 80s and it was a unit from the 70s that had not been renovated. Shag carpets, ugly cabinetry, the whole 9. The other partner in the half share was the owner. It worked out completely fine. We had a closet dedicated to our belongings. The ski room was just loosely divided in half. Things like condiments and what not in the refrigerator were communal.

I think this is probably the best way to go about it. Find a half share with an actual owner. That way you know they're going to be invested in the place and take care of it. Splitting with some random stranger may result in the cleanliness problem you'd be concerned about.

 

[Razor]

We've owned a quartershare at Sunday River for about 12 years. It's a sleep 4 studio that we paid $16,000 for and which can now be bought for around $5,000. So if you look at it as a real estate investment, you'd never buy it. But we're retired, and for us it's a great purchase.

Let's look at the fundamentals. We get 13 weeks/year. We give 2 weeks to the Boyne Vacation Club to get a free membership (weeks that we'd never use anyway). We pay $500/quarter for maintenance fees. We keep the unit in the rental pool most of the time, and the rent usually equals about 2/3 of the maintenance fee (Once every 4 years when we have the Christmas vacation weeks, the rentals may pay the whole fee). The best feature is Space Available where you can get a unit if they're not 90% sold out. We get the midweek pass and usually can get a unit anytime during the week, except for school vacation weeks. The key is that we're retired and can take advantage of midweeks. We use the hotel year round, and often the summer and fall are as good as the winter. Plus we can use Space A for Sugarloaf, which we do every spring.

With the Boyne Vacation Club membership, we get exchange privileges based on points similar to RCI. We've stayed at 5 star Marriott Resorts on Hilton Head, Ft. Lauderdale Beach, Aruba, Vail and other places in units far bigger and nicer than the one we own. The points add up.

The key for us is that being retired we can take advantage in a way that people still working can't. And an often overlooked financial aspect is that you can get tax write offs for all the expenses if you treat it as a rental property and follow the IRS guidelines.

 

[VTKilarney]

I think this is probably the best way to go about it. Find a half share with an actual owner.

I have always felt that a half share with a good friend is the best way to go. You can't use a place all of the time, so it makes sense to half your costs. And with just two owners who are also friends, you don't have to always lock your things in a closest when you leave.

I looked into a quarter share at a place on Cape Cod. The price was surprisingly reasonable (unlike most timeshares). But it didn't make sense for a lot of reasons. The biggest is that a quarter share on Cape Cod only gets you two weeks of genuine beach vacation. June can be cool and wet, and the water is not likely to be warm enough to swim. And for two out of four weeks in June my children are still in school. That leaves July and August. Every fourth year we would get the last week of August when the kids are already back in school. So I couldn't justify the purchase. This place had a rental pool that would help with costs, but their cut was absurdly expensive and it's not exactly easy to find renters on Cape Cod during non-summer months.

I have friends that have co-owned a vacation home and it has worked out very well for them. The one caveat is that I have also had friends who did this and then one or both get divorced. That can make things tricky, and in each case that I know of the property wound up being sold.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I have 2 friends that bought 1/4 shares at the Loaf for under 10,000 and are very happy with them.Both are fulltime Cannon skiers.One owns in Lincoln and the other is my house mate in Mittersill.The latter is a very wise and successfull real estate invester.FWIW.

 

[Savemeasammy]

I told my wife we could give our timeshare to her parents - on the condition that they don't leave it to us in their will!


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[VTKilarney]

Redweek.com has a couple of cheap listings at the Village of Loon Mountain resort in Lincoln, NH.

- $500 for a four bedroom unit during week 9 (check-in 2/27/16). Annual fees are $1,043.
- $950 for a two bedroom unit during week 8. Annual fees are $650.

If you can handle the commitment, you'd be very hard pressed to get similar accommodations for that price elsewhere.

 

[frapcap]

^The thing is though, if you put all that info into a spreadsheet and included the time value of money (as a proper financial calculation should), the all-in cost has been a lot more expensive than it seems you think it is. Maybe if you use it religiously for a few decades and don't "skip" years, it could work out (maybe), but there's probably not many folks who do this. I know people who have had one for about 6 or 8 years now, and they've only been using it every-other-year. That kills them on it whether they realize it or not. Realistically speaking, assuming you calculate the math correctly, I think it's extremely challenging for anyone to come out ahead on one of these things versus simply booking lodging deals each year. The genius in the timeshare sales, is that's it's very easy to make it seem like a great deal.

Agreed. One of these should only be bought if you will actually use it and not let it go to waste and paying for something to sit- the return on investment has to be there. Thankfully, I bought in when I was 22 (30 y/o now) and have used it every year, 2-3x per year (or more if you include the 'extra vacation' thing). It has another two years until it is paid off, and after that, its only the maintenance fee ever couple of years and the couple hundred bucks for the reservation. It'll definitely pay me back down the line. In the interim, I've been able to travel and stay at some very nice properties and take week long trips to places that I otherwise could never have afforded at a young age due to the high cost of lodging. Now-a-days we usually meet retired folks on our trips who own 2-3 properties and string together weeks after weeks of vacations for little money because they actually have the time to dedicate to using their points, shares, weeks, whatever. But I digress- last year we stayed right across from Attitash at the Seasons in a 3 bedroom property for a week for $200. Hard to beat for a cheap vacation with friends.
But you are right, it will only work if it makes sense for your situation and you can use it to its full extent.

Occasionally you can get a defunct property pretty cheaply on redweek.com and use it for income. I used to rent mine out at the same place in Mexico every year for about 3 years until I started giving away a week as a wedding gift or renting to friends. Typically took care of the maintenance fees every year and a couple of payments. I still know a few folks who will make a reservation at some high value place in high season and just rent out for a much greater sum than they paid to reserve it, but I've quit doing that myself.