dmc said:
Yes, I've seen the winchcats at work at Sunday River and it is really cool to watch. I'd like to take a spin in one someday! :wink:
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To groom or not to groom
- Thread starter freeheelwilly
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Yes, I've seen the winchcats at work at Sunday River and it is really cool to watch. I'd like to take a spin in one someday! :wink:
dmc
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thetrailboss said:
Had an oppurtunity to go up on a cat a week ago during the storm...
But I didn't.... Should've though - heard it was really cool!
skidweeb.com
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If grooming were up to me, I'd say groom half of each trail only. Leave some bumps and "action" on one side, and smooth it out on the other.
If you're with a group of skiers with varied tastes you can all ski the same trail.
Also, if you get in over your head in the bumps, you can jump back onto the smooth.
Seems the way to go with the trails as wide as they are these days.
If you're with a group of skiers with varied tastes you can all ski the same trail.
Also, if you get in over your head in the bumps, you can jump back onto the smooth.
Seems the way to go with the trails as wide as they are these days.
ChileMass
Active member
Charlie Schuessler said:
OK - I can get behind what you're saying - but I'm 45 years old now!! I can handle about 2-3 runs in natural conditions, and then it's back to the blue/black groomers for me. My thing is speed, so I like corduroy a lot. Hard to do big GS turns between bumps and stumps. But - all hills should leave some of their terrain natural so people can have the experience and develop those skills......
I'll beat you to the bottom, but you'll make more turns and have a better overall workout.......
Vortex
Member
You live in the right townskidweeb.com said:
I agree with that somewhat. Wide trails can do that. Flume, Sunset, Seven Brothers are examples of this at my home mtn.. Well Sort of they groom in the bumps and then let them go.awf170
New member
Im going kind of twist this topic, what ski areas do you think are the best and which places are the worst with grooming.
Personly i hate sunapees grooming because they dont leave anything ungroomed, i understand that it is an begginer/intermidite mountain but atleast leave something ungroomed. Also they make those nasty moguls which are so rock hard and icy they are unskiable.
On the other side i like wildcats grooming because they dont groom edge to edge and they seem to leave little jumps and other junk. Also they groom about 70% percent of there terrain each night which i think is a good amount to groom.
Personly i hate sunapees grooming because they dont leave anything ungroomed, i understand that it is an begginer/intermidite mountain but atleast leave something ungroomed. Also they make those nasty moguls which are so rock hard and icy they are unskiable.
On the other side i like wildcats grooming because they dont groom edge to edge and they seem to leave little jumps and other junk. Also they groom about 70% percent of there terrain each night which i think is a good amount to groom.
tirolerpeter
New member
To groom or not to groom?
I like what they do out west in most of the larger areas. They groom the greens, and a select number of blues and blacks, and leave the rest alone. Of course, out there, there are no "rules" regarding staying on trails. As long as there isn't a marked hazard, and you are "within the bounds" of the entire ski area, you are free to ski anything you can tackle. At places like Alta, and Snowbasin they will groom a one or two machine width area down the blue and single black trails (forget about grooming on the doubles!). Those in your party that are less confident can ski that while you make your own tracks parallel to the trail or, if the powder hounds have beaten you to it, you can work the crud. It is a real blast! It always amazes first time western skiers that if a couple of trees have enough distance between them for a human body to slip through, there will eventually be a pair of tracks running through the slot. Glade skiing is so much fun, when the snow depth is sufficient to carry you over roots, shrubs, and logs. In fact, I really find I need my helmet and goggles to keep from getting whacked by low hanging branches rather than from impacts with the ground in a fall.
I like what they do out west in most of the larger areas. They groom the greens, and a select number of blues and blacks, and leave the rest alone. Of course, out there, there are no "rules" regarding staying on trails. As long as there isn't a marked hazard, and you are "within the bounds" of the entire ski area, you are free to ski anything you can tackle. At places like Alta, and Snowbasin they will groom a one or two machine width area down the blue and single black trails (forget about grooming on the doubles!). Those in your party that are less confident can ski that while you make your own tracks parallel to the trail or, if the powder hounds have beaten you to it, you can work the crud. It is a real blast! It always amazes first time western skiers that if a couple of trees have enough distance between them for a human body to slip through, there will eventually be a pair of tracks running through the slot. Glade skiing is so much fun, when the snow depth is sufficient to carry you over roots, shrubs, and logs. In fact, I really find I need my helmet and goggles to keep from getting whacked by low hanging branches rather than from impacts with the ground in a fall.
RossiSkier
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Skiers will want groomed trails or ungroomed trails according to what ever type of ski's they have invested in. As we all know, many skis simply do not perform well off a groomed trail, but carve fantastic on them. Other skis cut crud like a can opener. I think this question isn't really about groomed or ungroomed. It's a question of what kind of skis do you own.
tirolerpeter
New member
Grooming?
ChileMass I understand your point about the extra effort required to ski "natural" conditions, and how "cool" (dates me no?) it is to smoke it down the courduroy. I used to feel the same way. I finally decided to "bite the bullet" so to speak, and to really get into shape. It is remarkable how much better I can ski now, and how much more I enjoy the day. I now feel nearly as strong after 6 hours (read that as "no burn") as I did on the first couple of runs. My enjoyment of the sport regardless of terrain has increased exponentially! Oh, by the way, I'll be 59 in May, so its not too late for you "midlifers" to tune it up a bit. I guarantee you will find it worth it.
ChileMass said:Charlie Schuessler said:
OK - I can get behind what you're saying - but I'm 45 years old now!! I can handle about 2-3 runs in natural conditions, and then it's back to the blue/black groomers for me. My thing is speed, so I like corduroy a lot. Hard to do big GS turns between bumps and stumps. But - all hills should leave some of their terrain natural so people can have the experience and develop those skills......
I'll beat you to the bottom, but you'll make more turns and have a better overall workout.......
ChileMass I understand your point about the extra effort required to ski "natural" conditions, and how "cool" (dates me no?) it is to smoke it down the courduroy. I used to feel the same way. I finally decided to "bite the bullet" so to speak, and to really get into shape. It is remarkable how much better I can ski now, and how much more I enjoy the day. I now feel nearly as strong after 6 hours (read that as "no burn") as I did on the first couple of runs. My enjoyment of the sport regardless of terrain has increased exponentially! Oh, by the way, I'll be 59 in May, so its not too late for you "midlifers" to tune it up a bit. I guarantee you will find it worth it.
riverc0il
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RossiSkier, this could be a chicken or the egg situation. i generally purchase skis that perform on conditions i prefer to ski on, not let me terrain preference be dictated by the skis i am wearing. of course, it helps to have multiple sets of skis i only recently went that route and before tried to go with "all mountain" skis. i can't remember the saying about all mountain skis, but it's something along the lines of great at nothing, medicore at everything! though i find "all mountain" skis definitely tend to prefer the groomed rather than the "all mountain."
i only recently went that route and before tried to go with "all mountain" skis. i can't remember the saying about all mountain skis, but it's something along the lines of great at nothing, medicore at everything! though i find "all mountain" skis definitely tend to prefer the groomed rather than the "all mountain."Jay Levitt
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Dumb newbie question: could somebody post a link to a good article describing exactly what takes place during grooming? I'm confused as to whether it packs the snow down, or breaks the snow up, or what.
dmc
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Jay Levitt said:
It does all those things!! Breaks up chuncks and ridges and tills it into a nice surface...
No such thing as a dumb question, people have to learn somehow.Jay Levitt said:
Jay Levitt
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dmc said:
Cool.. but how? There must be some "interview with the mysterious groomers.. they come out at night..." article somewhere. I've tried googling, but there are too many trail-condition reports to find anything.
dmc
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Jay Levitt said:
Check http://huntermtn.com/snowmake.html for some general info..
And
http://www.telemet.com/snow_pistenbully.htm
Vortex
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Maybe this will help. www.snowgroomers.net
Jay Levitt
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Thanks.. those links seem to assume you already know what's involved in grooming, though. I found this article, which is more what I was looking for: a skier's-eye view of just what goes on at night:
http://www.skimag.com/skimag/features/article/0,12795,714803,00.html
http://www.skimag.com/skimag/features/article/0,12795,714803,00.html
dmc
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Jay Levitt said:
Hey - we gave it our best shot...
Lostone
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IMNATHO, I think "All Mountain" is a marketing term. They use it because everyone wants to be able to ski all over the mountain. (As opposed to those of us who just want to ski in the lodge? :roll: )
I have a pair of Vokl G4s. They were sold to me as All mountain, and I was told that the only thing they weren't good for was bumps. (There are no such things as skis that are good for bumps, for me. :roll: :wink: )
They are a wide instep so they are great in powder and in the woods. They are stiff so they plow right thru crud. As they are wide, you have to lean them a little to get them on edge for a carve, but when you do... they do! :wink:
I've yet to meet anyone who says they are mediocre. I've seen some people running them great thru bumps... but they weren't using my legs... or more likely, my brain.
Lostone
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Oh yeah! I just remembered,. I have something to say about the actual topic, too.
1) I HATE the trails where they groom half and leave the other to have bumps. Can't tell you how many times I've seen collisions between someone bailing from the bumps and someone else carving on the groomed. Deadly! :angry:
B) I think that if you are grooming a trail, (blue box) you should groom it all the time. To have a two days ago groomed trail with snow piles and ice between is good for nobody. If it is steep enough for bumps then let it bump up, but if not, there is no rythm to the bumps. You can't run it like a bump trail and you can't cruise it like a groomed.
III) I agree with the above posts about leaving some of each variety on the mountain and grooming vbefore a big dump. Most hills are large enough to have enough variety for each type. And there is little better than plowing thru a couple feet of snow, knowing that what is underneath will not be sending your kneecaps into your jaw. .
1) I HATE the trails where they groom half and leave the other to have bumps. Can't tell you how many times I've seen collisions between someone bailing from the bumps and someone else carving on the groomed. Deadly! :angry:
B) I think that if you are grooming a trail, (blue box) you should groom it all the time. To have a two days ago groomed trail with snow piles and ice between is good for nobody. If it is steep enough for bumps then let it bump up, but if not, there is no rythm to the bumps. You can't run it like a bump trail and you can't cruise it like a groomed.
III) I agree with the above posts about leaving some of each variety on the mountain and grooming vbefore a big dump. Most hills are large enough to have enough variety for each type. And there is little better than plowing thru a couple feet of snow, knowing that what is underneath will not be sending your kneecaps into your jaw. .
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