Tree Well and Deep Snow Safety

[MadMadWorld]

Also, anyone considering doing any BC right now should avoid it. Conditions aren't great and even though there isn't a deep snow pack, it's prime avalanche conditions right now.

 

[Nick]

About 15 years ago, we pulled an american out of a tree well at Tremblant. His wife had been unsuccessfully trying to get him out for about 15 minutes. We unsuccessfully tried to revive him. He did not make it. He fell off an easy traverse and he was head down less than 10 feet away from the trail..

Wow ... that must have been quite a sobering experience.

 

[polski]

k8piranha, thanks for posting that. Makes me realize the snowpack doesn't have to be ridiculously (West) deep to be problematic if you're upside-down and it's collapsing on you.

MadMadWorld, perhaps you meant to qualify your warning? Of course people need to know what terrain is prone to slide and treat it with proper caution but to say "anyone considering doing any BC right now should avoid it" strikes me as rather overly broad. If actually it's a ploy so you have the entire EC BC to yourself, well, hat tip I guess ....

 

[noreasterbackcountry]

At the very end of this video (FF to 4:40) I caught a ski on a snow snake on a really small slope, got turned around so that my head was downhill and the slough covered my head entirely. My poles were hooked onto my arms and wedged in between some saplings and my feet were uphill caught in the trees. For about three seconds I couldn't move. Luckily I was able to wriggle free but I was there just long enough to be keenly aware of how easily I could have suffocated.

https://vimeo.com/18876744

Not exactly a tree well, but a reminder of how some bad body positioning and a little snow can seriously F things up...

This is also one of the reasons I never... ever... ever use the wrist loops in the trees.

 

[HowieT2]

I skied down a steep chute and into a tree well yesterday at mt ellen. Snow was up to my chest with my skis on and underneath me. Luckily it was real steep and i was able to extricate myself fairly easily by moving forward.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I actually just found this thread - I was wondering how common they were in the east after I fell in one at Sugarbush on Saturday. Never even thought we had them here - especially since there's not a ton of snow yet. It was very scary - we were skiing below the Church and I hooked a tip on a branch and went for a tumble. I was trying to roll so that I could just get up and keep going but as I was in the middle of that the snow beneath me gave way and I fell on my back deep into a hole with my feet and skis up above me. I was in deep enough that no one could see anything from outside. Every time I moved more snow would fall in on my face. I think the hole was made by several feet of snow over some small conifers. When I rolled over this untracked area I fell right through into the pocket beneath and all the snow fell in on me. At first I couldn't breathe but was able to get the snow away from my face. If I didn't move too much the snow wouldn't keep falling in. Luckily a few of my friends had been behind me and heard me calling for help. I had one arm free with the pole still attached and i was able to wave it so that just the tip might have been visible. It took 3 guys to get me out of there. If I had been alone I'd probably still be up there - there's no way I could have rescued myself from the position I was in, especially since every time I moved I just kept sinking into the pine branches. I will be very happy if this never happens again.

This makes me think twice about skiing areas like the Church solo on deep powder days. But, alas, I don't know a lot of people who also like to ski that kind of terrain

 

[bdfreetuna]

I skied down a steep chute and into a tree well yesterday at mt ellen. Snow was up to my chest with my skis on and underneath me. Luckily it was real steep and i was able to extricate myself fairly easily by moving forward.

Sounds like that tree well might have actually helped you down the chute

Snow is up to 4 feet in the woods up there right now, I believe it.

 

[snoseek]

Also, anyone considering doing any BC right now should avoid it. Conditions aren't great and even though there isn't a deep snow pack, it's prime avalanche conditions right now.

Avoid it really? That seems a little dramatic...

How about go out, be aware and make smart decisions. You should consider yourself lucky back east to have such a bomber snowpack on any given day. I highly doubt anyone skiing somewhat safe lines right now is in any extraordinary danger. If anything this is the time to go get it I would think, just make good decisions.

Have you been out digging pits?

 

[MadMadWorld]

Avoid it really? That seems a little dramatic...

How about go out, be aware and make smart decisions. You should consider yourself lucky back east to have such a bomber snowpack on any given day. I highly doubt anyone skiing somewhat safe lines right now is in any extraordinary danger. If anything this is the time to go get it I would think, just make good decisions.

Have you been out digging pits?

Yes I have dug several pits and also bought some whippets just in case.

 

[snoseek]

Yes I have dug several pits and also bought some whippets just in case.

I'm not trying to pick on you, really but...

Greylock, Mousilake, Cardigan.

Those are three mainstream ones off the top of my head that should be avi safe.

I mean obviously there's danger to be had, but the word any is like saying its ALL dangerous. I'm just saying pick smart routes and make safe calls and its all good.

What is your whippet gonna do for you in a slide?

We've had close to 200 inches around here this month, multiple deaths around the basin. Am I gonna go up on Carson Pass this week and ski rowdy lines? Hell no! There's plenty of low angle trees that are plenty safe for me though and tey've been skiing extra good.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I'm not trying to pick on you, really but...

Greylock, Mousilake, Cardigan.

Those are three mainstream ones off the top of my head that should be avi safe.

I mean obviously there's danger to be had, but the word any is like saying its ALL dangerous. I'm just saying pick smart routes and make safe calls and its all good.

We've had close to 200 inches around here this month, multiple deaths around the basin. Am I gonna go up on Carson Pass this week and ski rowdy lines? Hell no! There's plenty of low angle trees that are plenty safe for me though and tey've been skiing extra good.

It's fine I can take it. Using the word "all" was an overstatement. Greylock and Cardigan are probably safe. I would say Moosilauke is probably not a good idea right now but should be fine be fine in a few days. We can both agree that education is the most important thing. Enjoy those rowdy lines when things get better!

 

[snoseek]

It's fine I can take it. Using the word "all" was an overstatement. Greylock and Cardigan are probably safe. I would say Moosilauke is probably not a good idea right now but should be fine be fine in a few days. We can both agree that education is the most important thing. Enjoy those rowdy lines when things get better!

And my observations from 3000 miles away are probably marginal at best...

your right about edeucation i think. There's a wealth of information out there between classes, books, online and actual people that know whats up. It's neverending as it should be. Cheers, go get some:beer:

 

[riverc0il]

I've thankfully never been upside down in one, but I have had a few occasions in which I've had to extract myself from a tree well. Seems where ever there are a lot of small conifers and a recent unconsolidated deep snow pack, there is significant chance of getting hung up in one of these things in certain areas. Certainly not the risk as seen out west but definitely good to be aware of this risk and try to mitigate it as best as possible.

 

[kingslug]

One of the first times we where at Alta I watched my wife just disappear near a tree, she got out as I was making my way toward her..very scary, never even heard about these things back then. Almost lost a guy I was skiing with at Alta 2 years ago, his first time there and he skied too close to a large boulder with the same effect. Scary though..drowning in snow....

 

[RENO]

I actually just found this thread - I was wondering how common they were in the east after I fell in one at Sugarbush on Saturday. Never even thought we had them here - especially since there's not a ton of snow yet. It was very scary - we were skiing below the Church and I hooked a tip on a branch and went for a tumble. I was trying to roll so that I could just get up and keep going but as I was in the middle of that the snow beneath me gave way and I fell on my back deep into a hole with my feet and skis up above me. I was in deep enough that no one could see anything from outside. Every time I moved more snow would fall in on my face. I think the hole was made by several feet of snow over some small conifers. When I rolled over this untracked area I fell right through into the pocket beneath and all the snow fell in on me. At first I couldn't breathe but was able to get the snow away from my face. If I didn't move too much the snow wouldn't keep falling in. Luckily a few of my friends had been behind me and heard me calling for help. I had one arm free with the pole still attached and i was able to wave it so that just the tip might have been visible. It took 3 guys to get me out of there. If I had been alone I'd probably still be up there - there's no way I could have rescued myself from the position I was in, especially since every time I moved I just kept sinking into the pine branches. I will be very happy if this never happens again.

Scary sh*t! :-o Don't want to be in that situation. Glad your buddies were nearby and you got out ok.