Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass

[FBGM]

Those praising the good deeds of Vail and are excited about Fail takeovers are the same morons who voted for Trump

 

[crystalmountainskier]

I really hate the feel of most of Vail Resorts Websites. They are just so corporate and have no personality. In particular the one for Vail, Breckenridge and Keystone.

There is really only one website for all the resorts. Other than Stowe, which has yet to be switched over to the corporate site design. I read they launched the new WB site with the default measurement units in feet and Fahrenheit and Canadians weren't too pleased.

 

[benski]

those praising the good deeds of vail and are excited about fail takeovers are the same morons who voted for trump

amen!

 

[VTKilarney]

Those praising the good deeds of Vail and are excited about Fail takeovers are the same morons who voted for Trump

Who are different from the same morons that ignore the "no political discussion" rule here.

This thread had been going well...

 

[VTKilarney]

I fail to see how this is a bad thing for consumers. Vail is simply giving another option, which nobody is forced to partake in. They do not have anything close to a monopoly in the northeast. Claims that they do are absurd. We already have anti-trust laws in place. Most people who criticize big corporations love government. So why aren't you trusting your government to enforce the laws already on the books? Could it be that it really isn't a monopoly? Or do you just love government when they are taking money from big corporations and not yourself?

My one concern is that Vail's downward pressure on prices results in a couple of ski areas closing. Burke, for example, could be hurt by this. A $600 season pass that is good only at Burke all of the sudden seems like a rip-off. And if I was going to purchase a condo, I would be very tempted to purchase a condo at a Vail ski area since my pass would include options out west.

For all of those who are criticizing Vail just because they are a big corporation, a couple of comments:
1) How do you think that they got so big? They are providing a product that consumers are eager to pay for.
2) Vail is far from the first big corporation to get into the ski business. Why pick on just Vail?
3) Don't you WANT companies to spread their risk by owning ski areas in several markets? Or do you actually prefer a company that could go bankrupt if we have a couple of back-to-back bad snow years in the northeast?

 

[djd66]

I fail to see how this is a bad thing for consumers. Vail is simply giving another option, which nobody is forced to partake in. They do not have anything close to a monopoly in the northeast. Claims that they do are absurd. We already have anti-trust laws in place. Most people who criticize big corporations love government. So why aren't you trusting your government to enforce the laws already on the books? Could it be that it really isn't a monopoly? Or do you just love government when they are taking money from big corporations and not yourself?

My one concern is that Vail's downward pressure on prices results in a couple of ski areas closing. Burke, for example, could be hurt by this. A $600 season pass that is good only at Burke all of the sudden seems like a rip-off. And if I was going to purchase a condo, I would be very tempted to purchase a condo at a Vail ski area since my pass would include options out west.

For all of those who are criticizing Vail just because they are a big corporation, a couple of comments:
1) How do you think that they got so big? They are providing a product that consumers are eager to pay for.
2) Vail is far from the first big corporation to get into the ski business. Why pick on just Vail?
3) Don't you WANT companies to spread their risk by owning ski areas in several markets? Or do you actually prefer a company that could go bankrupt if we have a couple of back-to-back bad snow years in the northeast?

+1 - Great Post.

 

[BenedictGomez]

A Yukon at the Denali trim level is pretty plush. A Suburban with the Premier trim would be a step down.

Agree with this also.

But that's what I'm saying, rich people aren't buying Suburbans for the same reason rich people arent buying Ford Mustangs. Not that there's anything wrong with a Suburban or a Mustang, there isnt, but if you have the means, my point is your price level is considerably higher than those.

do you just love government when they are taking money from big corporations and not yourself?

It's more nuanced than that; they lack the financial education to understand that when government takes money from big corporations, government is actually taking money from "yourself", simply in a lagging fashion.

 

[thetrailboss]

One last thing before I stop ranting about Vail

I really hate the feel of most of Vail Resorts Websites. They are just so corporate and have no personality. In particular the one for Vail, Breckenridge and Keystone.

What I look for in a ski website is not just a list of the trails open, but a summary of the conditions produced by some sort of spokesperson or weatherman. While some resorts are overly enthusiastic (Killington) or straight up lie (Cannon) about conditions, it is better than having no write up at all.

I never could find a condition writeup on most of Vails websites, except for A-basin. I guess they just expect you to come anyway and they couldn't be bothered to hire someone to write something other than a number of how much snow they got. And no, I don't want to follow them on facebook to see the conditions.

We get it. You don't like Vail. It is America and you have other choices.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sure. They have warehouses full of super-rich people that they're stock-piling. Then when they buy another mountain they drop off loads of them at the Chevy dealers closest to the mountain to buy all the Suburbans and release them on their merry way.

:lol:

 

[slatham]

We've focused on the "consumer" as being a pass holder, which most us are. But most skiers are not pass holders (I would be interested to know the industry breakdown of skier visits between pass holders and ticket buyers). For ticket buyers, the question is how do day tickets prices change? For this segment of the consumer such corporate consolidation may not be beneficial. I am not sure how prices have changed at Stowe, but $124 walk up and $98 advanced online is steep.

 

[sull1102]

I fail to see how this is a bad thing for consumers. Vail is simply giving another option... They do not have anything close to a monopoly in the northeast. Claims that they do are absurd...

My one concern is that Vail's downward pressure on prices results in a couple of ski areas closing. Burke, for example, could be hurt by this. A $600 season pass that is good only at Burke all of the sudden seems like a rip-off. And if I was going to purchase a condo, I would be very tempted to purchase a condo at a Vail ski area since my pass would include options out west.

Seriously? You don't see how this is bad for the consumer BUT you see a possibility of a couple ski areas closing because of this. Sorry that makes no sense at all and just comes off as a selfish "doesn't bother me" attitude. How is it good for the consumer for any business to close? Your profile says you live in the NEK, you think it is good for that region to lose another business? And just cause you like the idea of buying a Vail pass to go out west does not mean that is what everyone thinks. Personally, the West means SQUAT to mean, great I have tickets at mountains I am never going to because I would much rather save money and head back over to the Alps(it is cheaper to fly across the Atlantic than the Mississippi if you know where to look i.e. Norwegian. and then hop on Easyjet or RyanAir).

If Vail was saving Okemo and Sunapee from certain death or both mountains were in a downward trend I would be all for. That is not the case here or at Stowe.

 

[VTKilarney]

Seriously? You don't see how this is bad for the consumer BUT you see a possibility of a couple ski areas closing because of this. Sorry that makes no sense at all and just comes off as a selfish "doesn't bother me" attitude.

Uh... you do realize that Burke is my home mountain, do you not?

It boils down to this. I am thinking about the average consumer - not just me. You should try thinking of others every now and then. Simply put, Vail is making skiing (more than just a couple of days a year) more affordable to more people - even if they don't go out west. The people who do go out west are subsidizing your pass, and yet you seem to think that you are the victim here.

And the people who only ski a couple of days a year still have a LOT of choices other than Vail. If Burke closes, I will be very sad. But it's not as if Vail will be the only remaining option out there.

As for being cheaper to fly to the Alps, that may be true (although I doubt it) if you have no bags to bring with you. I'm not a fan of going on a ski vacation without bringing a bag or two.

 

[thetrailboss]

We've focused on the "consumer" as being a pass holder, which most us are. But most skiers are not pass holders (I would be interested to know the industry breakdown of skier visits between pass holders and ticket buyers). For ticket buyers, the question is how do day tickets prices change? For this segment of the consumer such corporate consolidation may not be beneficial. I am not sure how prices have changed at Stowe, but $124 walk up and $98 advanced online is steep.

The conversion of a consumer from a day ticket skier to a passholder is EXACTLY what Vail is trying to do. They have pushed the pricepoint on the Epic Pass to the point where it only makes sense for a fair weather skier/rider to buy that pass. Vail wants to get more $$$ and more commitment from this market.

 

[gregnye]

They do not have anything close to a monopoly in the northeast. Claims that they do are absurd.

No one ever said anything about them currently having a monopoly on the East Coast. As of right now, 2018, they do not have a monopoly in the east.

However, people who live out in Colorado are (and should be) more concerned. Because there they currently own a lot of mountains.

Right now in colorado they own or run: Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, Crested Butte.

While thats certainly not all the ski areas in Colorado, those are definitely the big ones. It would be like Vail owning, Loon, Killington, Mount Snow, Stratton, Stowe and Okemo on the east coast.

These aren't Whaleback sized hills. Perhaps the best way to compare would be by terrain acreage and not number of resorts--then we could get a better deal of whether it really is a monopoly or not.

And no, I don't "Trust my government to regulate the businesses" Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.

 

[VTKilarney]

Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.

Well at least we aren't resorting to hyperbole. /sarcasm

 

[thetrailboss]

No one ever said anything about them currently having a monopoly on the East Coast. As of right now, 2018, they do not have a monopoly in the east.

However, people who live out in Colorado are (and should be) more concerned. Because there they currently own a lot of mountains.

Right now in colorado they own or run: Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, Crested Butte.

While thats certainly not all the ski areas in Colorado, those are definitely the big ones. It would be like Vail owning, Loon, Killington, Mount Snow, Stratton, Stowe and Okemo on the east coast.

These aren't Whaleback sized hills. Perhaps the best way to compare would be by terrain acreage and not number of resorts--then we could get a better deal of whether it really is a monopoly or not.

And no, I don't "Trust my government to regulate the businesses" Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.

I am pretty sure that we established that A-Basin is NOT owned or operated by Vail. They DO have a relationship with the Epic Pass like some other areas. That is all.

 

[Smellytele]

No one ever said anything about them currently having a monopoly on the East Coast. As of right now, 2018, they do not have a monopoly in the east.

However, people who live out in Colorado are (and should be) more concerned. Because there they currently own a lot of mountains.

Right now in colorado they own or run: Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, Crested Butte.

While thats certainly not all the ski areas in Colorado, those are definitely the big ones. It would be like Vail owning, Loon, Killington, Mount Snow, Stratton, Stowe and Okemo on the east coast.

These aren't Whaleback sized hills. Perhaps the best way to compare would be by terrain acreage and not number of resorts--then we could get a better deal of whether it really is a monopoly or not.

And no, I don't "Trust my government to regulate the businesses" Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.

Still a few big ones out there not owned by Vail. Copper, Aspen , Winter Park and Steamboat

 

[BenedictGomez]

The conversion of a consumer from a day ticket skier to a passholder is EXACTLY what Vail is trying to do. They have pushed the pricepoint on the Epic Pass to the point where it only makes sense for a fair weather skier/rider to buy that pass. Vail wants to get more $$$ and more commitment from this market.

Until their internal financial modeling suggests they have attained sufficient market share; THEN the Epic Pass price increases are coming.

Oh, the price increases will come......

And no, I don't "Trust my government to regulate the businesses" Right now the national government is failing in literally every way.

As it always does; such is the nature of government.

Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine

 

[BenedictGomez]

Still a few big ones out there not owned by Vail. Copper, Aspen , Winter Park

Also Loveland, which was my favorite of the 4 (Arapahoe Basin, Copper Mountain, Loveland, Vail) I visited last year.

 

[thetrailboss]

Until their internal financial modeling suggests they have attained sufficient market share; THEN the Epic Pass price increases are coming.

Oh, the price increases will come......




Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine

Right. When the market becomes saturated, they will have to think of something else.