Interesting idea. In Colorado, Vail owns about 1/3 of the skiable acreage. Not even close to a monopoly. The purchase of Crested Butte only increased their acreage ownership in Colorado from 31% to 33%.
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Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass
- Thread starter Zand
- Start date
Interesting idea. In Colorado, Vail owns about 1/3 of the skiable acreage. Not even close to a monopoly. The purchase of Crested Butte only increased their acreage ownership in Colorado from 31% to 33%.
Smellytele
Well-known member
Telluride and Purgatory as well.
Again, the issue is the amount of marketshare that Vail controls in Colorado (as in skier days). Not acreage.
In terms of market-share, it looks like the Vail resorts (pre-Crested Butte) had about 40% of the state's ski visits (rough number based on using reported visits from Vail's resorts vs the combined total for the Colorado Ski Country USA member resorts which essentially account for most of the non-Vail ones). Still not a monopoly.
spiderpig
Member
So if I bought an Okemo pass early "before the price went up" how do I go about getting my money back for the difference between that price and the Epic pass?
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Not all Colorado acreage is equal; I think it's pretty clear a company like Vail would rather own a "Denver accessible ski area", which I'd define as: Arapahoe Basin, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Copper Mountain, Keystone, Loveland, Vail, and Winter Park). They've got 1/2 of those locked-up.
Ask Okemo's Season Pass Office? Although I suspect the answer right now would be that they can't do anything until the deal officially closes.
ss20
Well-known member
:lol::lol::lol:
True...but they can't lock up any more of them without getting into anti-trust territory again. After they bought Keystone, Breck, and A-Basin, the DOJ forced them to sell A-Basin. So I wouldn't expect them to be able to buy Copper, Winter Park, Loveland or A-Basin even if they wanted to.
spiderpig
Member
I suspect since they're a publicly traded company that Vail is not in the business of giving away money.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Shocking concept, I know.
abc
Well-known member
So you haven't flown to Europe!
"A bag" is typically FREE! Now if you can't your skis in "a bag", then perhaps that's indeed hopeless for you.
(I have no idea whether it's "cheaper" to fly to Europe, not knowing what to compare it to)
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I've been to Europe numerous times. As a matter of fact, I was just pricing a ticket to Montenegro today. As an Italian citizen, I can assure you that I know a thing or two about flying to Europe.
You said:
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you are only bringing one checked bag. The cheapest ticket from Boston to London (seven night stay) for all of February is $486 on WOW Air. (Departing February 26th.) This includes one checked bag and no carry-on bag other than a briefcase or purse. With skis, the price goes to $612. That just gets you to London, mind you - but your plan has you transfer to Easyjet or Ryanair. If we use Easyjet for our example, you will pay another $137 USD for a flight to Zurich. If you have skis, your Easyjet ticket goes to $235.
So... using the absolute cheapest date for the entire month of February, the cheapest you can get to the Alps using your system - if you bring one checked bag, but no carry-on and no skis - is $623. If you want to avoid renting skis, the price goes to $847.
If you can't get to the Rockies for less than that, you are an absolute moron. Just the fact that you expected me to believe that a bag is free on a LCC across the Atlantic makes you a moron. Even Delta and other legacy carriers are now charging for a checked bag across the Atlantic. Compare that to Southwest offering up to two free bags here in the United States.
And let's not forget the downside to connecting to Ryanair or Easyjet. If your flight into London is delayed, they aren't going to care since your trip is not booked on a single ticket. And the layovers are almost always longer when you cobble together two separate tickets.
Before you spout off, you really ought to know what you are talking about.
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Skiing in Europe is cheaper than skiing in Colorado = Fake News. FYI - United Direct to Denver is $350
VTKilarney
Well-known member
That being said, most people probably overestimate the cost of skiing in Europe.
Of course the Epic pass helps keep the cost of skiing out west down quite a bit, which is something that abc completely overlooked.
Not quite fake news because skiing in Europe depends on alot of things. Where in Europe? There are lots of places there. Switzerland= expensive. France, ditto. Dolomites- can be, but there are some good cheap options. Austria- lots of cheap options (this is where I’m most familiar with). Also exchange rate- a year or two ago the dollar and euro were basically even money. That was a great deal for dollar holders. That absolutely made the cost of skiing (i.e.lift tickets) much cheaper than most U.S. options and generally speaking far more terrain for the money.
A lot has changed in just the last few years. Used to be you could fly Lufthansa, Austrian,or Swiss airlines & skis went for free. I believe they’ve all stopped that now. And fares were generally in the $500-600 range rt (from NYC this isn’t ancient history, I’m talking 2012-2016 time frame. But past few years it seems fares are closer to $800ish & then you have to find a way to pay for skis if you’re going to bring them. Otherwise rent, which is pricey for multiple days. So yeah, Colorado is probably cheaper now, and it is especially so if you have Epic or Ikon. But a few years-ago you probably could’ve gotten a Euro trip cheaper, or at least very close to the cost of CO. And in a couple years it could change again. Or not.
So, how long before European resorts start buying up US ski resorts to offer multi ski area passes to compete with IKON, Epic, etc.?
Unlikely.
mister moose
Well-known member
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1) Eastern price increase down the road
2) $18 hamburgers and $20 parking.
3) Unbundled marked up everything.
4) Big day ticket rates scare off new entrants and last minute skiers
The cheap pass is the hook, not the entire product.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I hear what you are saying, but this ignores that skiers have a choice. They don't have to go to a Vail resort. You can, for example, ski Burke and get food and lift tickets at half the price or less. But... this allows countless skiers who buy the Epic Pass to save a LOT of money, both on their local hill and on trips out west.
I understand that you may not like the model, but having another option out there that saves certain people lots of money is indeed consumer friendly.
This may change, but setting speculation aside, this is a good thing for consumers at this moment in time.
