VAIL SUCKS

[Edd]

We went Epic Veteran and Ikon does not have an equivalent. Plus being based in Boston Sunapee will be our day trip ski area (have not been there in 15 years. A couple Crotched days And a couple weekend trips in VT. Other wise it will be spent in CO. Plus we may be living back there in the middle of the season. To be honest, I do not let all the politically correct or negative bullshit influence decisions. Where else do I get a pass for about $450 and get to ski some cool resorts. I do not need Loon SR or SL or Killington or even SB. Just need to have some turns here in the east. If it is up to my wife we would only ski in CO.

Hmmm, I think the MWV NH skiers have a pretty legit beef with Vail but that’s been very well covered in this thread. Not sure what’s political about that.

 

[Domeskier]

That's probably fair, as the pay would be negotiated by the union going forward. It's up to the new union to prove its worth by getting a better wage to compensate for that

Agreed. Comp for union members is set by the collective bargaining agreement. They froze themselves out of a bonus if the CBA doesn't provide for one.

 

[thebigo]

I suspect the word 'political' was nothing more than a poor choice of words. There is nothing political about cutting the season length by two months, or absolute bare minimum snow making or idling key lifts while other lifts have 30+ minute lines.

When they announced 'This changes everything', I kept an open mind hoping for actual change that would address their myriad failures. Only to find out, they actually thought the biggest problem was that pass prices were $100 too high. If I was a midweek boston based daytripper, I would probably still pick up a cheap pass. As someone who needs kids seasonal programs - never again.

As you read through the reason people still buy their pass, they fall into two groups and I suspect neither is sustainable.

- Tied to one of their mountains via real estate.
- The pass is so damn cheap, why not buy it.

 

[PAabe]

I've always called it a hot water heater too

and Vail did bare minimum with Big Boulder similar to NH areas. Previously known for a long season due to highest base elevation in poconos. Additionally did not perform lift maintenance and staff to adequate levels.

 

[Mum skier]

Ikon need to work on their marketing a bit. There was much written about the 20% off for Epic. But for a family of 4 the cheaper Ikon kids price, combined with another 100 off Kids if you buy adults as well only gave about a $50 difference for 2 adults, 2 kids families. If you were renewing Ikon even less.

So next year (well year after next I suppose now) without the Epic discount I think will be time to switch.

 

[abc]

As you read through the reason people still buy their pass, they fall into two groups and I suspect neither is sustainable.

- Tied to one of their mountains via real estate.
- The pass is so damn cheap, why not buy it.

The 21/22 pass Epic discount is to compensate for the Ikon passholders who deferred their 20/21 Ikon pass to 21/22. That number is not that small, as I personally knew quite a few. That's a market segment Vail lost for the 21/22 season. So Vail is fighting to attract buyers who're still free to buy Epic passes.

 

[thetrailboss]

The 21/22 pass Epic discount is to compensate for the Ikon passholders who deferred their 20/21 Ikon pass to 21/22. That number is not that small, as I personally knew quite a few. That's a market segment Vail lost for the 21/22 season. So Vail is fighting to attract buyers who're still free to buy Epic passes.

So is Vail thinking that folks in that camp will buy an Epic AND Ikon? BTW I've seen a fair number of people having issues using their "rollover" credit with Ikon. The financing is also not popular.

 

[ss20]

Ikon need to work on their marketing a bit. There was much written about the 20% off for Epic. But for a family of 4 the cheaper Ikon kids price, combined with another 100 off Kids if you buy adults as well only gave about a $50 difference for 2 adults, 2 kids families. If you were renewing Ikon even less.

So next year (well year after next I suppose now) without the Epic discount I think will be time to switch.

Ikon is still the "new kid on the block" and a lot less known than Epic, and I think that hurts their marketing. Epic/Vail also has properties close to population centers while Ikon does not to the same extent. Vail has a near-monopoly on the Denver market, and a total monopoly on the NYC market, and PA market. Ikon only really has Utah where their options are certainly, undeniably better than Vail. CA you can split down the middle as Ikon has Mammouth and Squaw while Vail has Heavenly, Kirkwood, and Northstar (maybe one more too, iirc).

 

[cdskier]

Ikon is still the "new kid on the block" and a lot less known than Epic, and I think that hurts their marketing. Epic/Vail also has properties close to population centers while Ikon does not to the same extent. Vail has a near-monopoly on the Denver market, and a total monopoly on the NYC market, and PA market. Ikon only really has Utah where their options are certainly, undeniably better than Vail. CA you can split down the middle as Ikon has Mammouth and Squaw while Vail has Heavenly, Kirkwood, and Northstar (maybe one more too, iirc).

I'm not sure I agree with Vail having a "total monopoly on the NYC market". I know a decent number of NJ/NYC metro people that have Ikon passes. Certainly Vail has a larger number than Ikon from this market, but a total monopoly is not accurate.

 

[p_levert]

I'm not sure I agree with Vail having a "total monopoly on the NYC market". I know a decent number of NJ/NYC metro people that have Ikon passes. Certainly Vail has a larger number than Ikon from this market, but a total monopoly is not accurate.

Vail certainly does not have a monopoly on Denver either. It's WP/Eldora/Copper/A-Basin vs. Keystone/Breck? With those choices, I choose Ikon.

 

[Edd]

Vail certainly does not have a monopoly on Denver either. It's WP/Eldora/Copper/A-Basin vs. Keystone/Breck? With those choices, I choose Ikon.

Vail/Beaver?

 

[ss20]

Vail certainly does not have a monopoly on Denver either. It's WP/Eldora/Copper/A-Basin vs. Keystone/Breck? With those choices, I choose Ikon.

I would think most of the general public would go with Vail, Beaver, Breck, and Keystone all on the same pass....lot more terrain over Copper, Winter Park, A-basin, and Eldora. Same with NYC being Hunter/Mt Snow/Okemo all being within 4 hours, vs Ikon which only has Windham and Stratton within the same distance.

If you looked at the more diehard skiers like us here on AZ the results are different. I live an hour from NYC and while Epic has much closer options for me I still go with Ikon as @cdskier says.

 

[p_levert]

Vail and the Beav are tough places to go for a day trip. It's a longer drive with an extra mountain pass and it's a pain to park and get started when you get there. Notice that I also excluded Steamboat for Ikon, which is also a tough day ski from Denver. When you throw in weekend trips, there's also CB for Epic and the Aspens for Ikon. I think Ikon is the better choice for Denver skiers.

 

[jaytrem]

Water heater is a great DIY job..they get around 2 to 3 K to replace them..

That's crazy, I paid right about $1200 recently. Would have done it myself, but didn't have the time. If it was 2 to 3k, I would have found the time.

 

[dblskifanatic]

Vail and the Beav are tough places to go for a day trip. It's a longer drive with an extra mountain pass and it's a pain to park and get started when you get there. Notice that I also excluded Steamboat for Ikon, which is also a tough day ski from Denver. When you throw in weekend trips, there's also CB for Epic and the Aspens for Ikon. I think Ikon is the better choice for Denver skiers.

It was 2.5 hours from Colorado Springs and we day tripped it often, Beaver was 2 hours and 45. It really is not that bad unless you choose the wrong time to go! For the past five years, we always went on Christmas and New years Day - Vail and Beaver are ghost towns on the slopes. Many times the weekend before or after a long holiday weekend is good too!

 

[thetrailboss]

So.....seems like despite most of the yelling and screaming, it appears that Vail was right that all people care about is $$$$ because most folks renewed.

 

[dblskifanatic]

So.....seems like despite most of the yelling and screaming, it appears that Vail was right that all people care about is $$$$ because most folks renewed.

We did not renew because of the east we did because of the west

 

[xlr8r]

Have not renewed a full pass yet. Will probably buy a few epic day passes just to ski 3-4 days between Attitash and Wildcat because I have relatives in MWV. But I have no intention of going to Sunapee, Crotched, Mt Snow, Stowe, Okemo again next year.

My current plan for next year for preseason pass/ticket purchases is:

Indy Plus Pass -already purchased
3 or 4 day Epic day pass - mentioned earlier for Attitash and Wildcat
New England 5 day Ticket pack - If Boyne offers this again for primarily Sunday River, but also maybe one day at Loon.

 

[p_levert]

It was 2.5 hours from Colorado Springs and we day tripped it often, Beaver was 2 hours and 45. It really is not that bad unless you choose the wrong time to go! For the past five years, we always went on Christmas and New years Day - Vail and Beaver are ghost towns on the slopes. Many times the weekend before or after a long holiday weekend is good too!

I think this works better if you live in Colorado Springs. If you're coming from Denver, then it's the nightmare slog up I70. After that, Vail/Beav becomes a bridge too far.

 

[kingslug]

Not around here......
Just paid my bill w/ Sila Plumbing ($1,300) and it clearly says HOT WATER HEATER Replacement

Thats a good price.