VAIL SUCKS

[KustyTheKlown]

Problem is that people keep buying the Epic pass because it's cheap.

If you want Vail to change stop buying the pass.

yep, and you'll never beat them because enough people are casual skiers who get their 5 days a year for ~$100/day and are happy. its just a mass market product now. savvy skiers will seek the more niche products that cater to savvy skiers. vail is disneyworld.

 

[pinion]

yep, and you'll never beat them because enough people are casual skiers who get their 5 days a year for ~$100/day and are happy. its just a mass market product now. savvy skiers will seek the more niche products that cater to savvy skiers. vail is disneyworld.

Which is why them keeping Wildcat in the portfolio is so damn confusing. Clearly I have a bias here because Wildcat has been my home mountain for a long time.

 

[drjeff]

The question is how are other resorts somehow managing to avoid the same level of challenges filling positions that Vail seems to be having at their resorts? I'm not saying other resorts aren't having issues, but they do seem to be less issues than the Vail resorts. I don't have details on the NH market, but I can compare Stowe to Sugarbush in VT for example. Sugarbush supposedly has a team of 40+ people on their snow-making team (that actually started at over 50 but a few were lost due to attrition as usual). Yet reports in the Stowe thread are that they're down to a handful of snow-makers. Even if those numbers are wrong and it is double or triple that amount and you add in a few more supervisors/managers/compressor/pump operators, that's still way below a nearby competitor that should be experiencing fairly similar challenges with labor. Maybe Stowe needs less overall than SB in general for some reason, but it still seems like a rather significant difference.

To me it seems clear that the issue is Vail is doing something wrong if they're having the depth of staffing challenges that they reportedly have.

I think some of it may very well be related to the shake up they tend to make where so many of the previous management, often with a good working knowledge of the resort and its guests as well as the rapport the managers have made with their employees, and fire them to be replaced with a new face, almost always from within the Vail Resorts network, and often with little/no knowledge of the resort and its clientele. You get some employees who so want to see "their" mountain succeed in a situation where they have a new leader who either isn't allowed via their bosses to operate in a way that gave it success in the past or even worse won't support their employees in a way that has their employees feeling good about what their doing, and that can be regardless of what they're getting paid. And you are starting to see some of this in the industry where some of the former Peak crew, who either left before Vail took over or were let go after the first season have moved onto other, non Vail resorts and are doing some good things that their employees and customers and even bosses are recognizing. In retrospect some day I bet some of the Vail higher ups will second guess their choice to not retain atleast some of the management staff from some of the resorts they acquired over the last few years, especially given how many new resorts they have added. Just exactly how much GOOD managerial new talent did Vail have in their middle management levels that they promoted to a newly acquired resort vs how much GOOD managerial talent did they acquire when they purchased those resorts, but never really gave a fair shake to?

Then you've got a core group of employees with a new leader and a bunch of new policies, that may very well have some questioning if they still want to work there and/or have the same passion for the mountain given that their managers may not understand the culture of the mountain vs the culture of Vail Resorts. I think in the East in particular we all saw that about a decade ago when Powdr bought Killington and tried to run Killington in a way that was quite different than what made Killington Killington and got it all of the visits and loyalty it had.

Not to say that some things that a big corporate ski cpmpany does aren't reasonable changes, however it seems often that they're trying to turn what made the resort what it is in the first place into something that it may very well not be. Often like the old adage of trying to fit a sqaure object into a round hole.....

 

[eatskisleep]

Would just like to say this is what happens when you make the day cost of skiing so friggen high, it “forces” people to buy an epic pass where the break even is like 3 days a season. Man, I really hope they sell Wildcat to someone

 

[IceEidolon]

Vail has gutted the experienced cadre of maintenance, operations, management and support staff. This is a Vail problem. They are failing to execute when local competitors aren't. This is not "people don't want to work" this is "Vail is being out-competed for a limited resource, employees."

 

[jimmywilson69]

They shouldn't have gutted the local knowledge. It really is that simple. They are too bullheaded to see this which is why they are trying to push a bunch of round pegs through their square corporate ways.

Labor is what it is. Some aren't having problems, but lots are. Killington is experiencing the same issues with having enough labor to expand in what is amounting to a poor winter so far.

 

[deadheadskier]

What I think Vail is trying to do is develop their brand to be similarly consistent like a hotel chain. Be the Hilton or Marriott of the skiing industry. The thing is that there is a vast amount of Hilton and Marriott hotels that aren't corporate owned and are franchises. There is a minimum standard to fly the brand flag, but there is still a fairly large range of quality between various hotels. In that sense, Hilton and Marriott are really more like Alterra.

Returning more local control really is the only way I see things improving

 

[thetrailboss]

The strike seems to be averted. For now.

Vail Resorts, PCMR ski patrol reach tentative deal, likely averting a strike (updated) - Park Record

Park City Mountain Resort owner Vail Resorts and the union that represents ski patrollers on Thursday jointly announced the two sides reached an agreement in principle about a new contract for the ski patrol.

www.parkrecord.com

 

[eatskisleep]

Looks like they can hire unvaxxed again... if they want... https://www.wsj.com/articles/suprem...em-for-healthcare-workers-11642103130?mod=mhp

 

[2Planker]

Many who left (instructors, patrollers) were working for free, just the pass.
That should tell you something.
It wasn't about the wages.

 

[machski]

Looks like they can hire unvaxxed again... if they want... https://www.wsj.com/articles/suprem...em-for-healthcare-workers-11642103130?mod=mhp

They have never been prohibited from doing so as the implementation date never hit. Regardless, even SCOTUS has upheld a company's right to make such a mandate.

 

[eatskisleep]

They have never been prohibited from doing so as the implementation date never hit. Regardless, even SCOTUS has upheld a company's right to make such a mandate.

Yes I understand that. My thought was just that they wouldn’t hire unvaxxed knowing that they would have to test them weekly or fire them come January 4th (the original date the mandate was supposed to take place). Now, if they decide to change that policy, there are no hurdles with OSHA or federally speaking.

 

[PAabe]

The supreme court case and its outcome was entirely predictable and Vail was stupid to fire or not hire employees in advance of the deadline actually hitting

Now they all work at Vail's wiser competitors

 

[eatskisleep]

Did Wildcat or Attitash blow any snow this week in prep for MLK weekend?

 

[ss20]

I've talked to maybe half a dozen people who taught for VR east and west and no one had anything nice to say other than a free Epic pass. More students, less $$$. That combo doesn't work lol.

 

[IceEidolon]

I hear Wildcat has been working on Upper Catapult - no word how far they've gotten.

 

[Edd]

Did Wildcat or Attitash blow any snow this week in prep for MLK weekend?

Yesterday, driving by, I saw Attitash blowing on both Attitash and Bear.

 

[deadheadskier]

Knowing the Marriots personally from working on their huge home renovations it’s insulting comparing them to Vail as they are much more into customer service , back when Vail was run bye George Gillett you could compare them as they were all about customer service back then, I see vail more like the old Holiday health fitness ie sell as many memberships as possible by using salesman on the floor vs real personal trainers

You are missing my point entirely. Marriott family / corporate owns and operates less than a third of Marriott hotels globally. There is a minimum standard that's inspected annually to maintain your flag. But there is a wide range of quality still. Many of the highest rated Marriott's in the world are actually franchises, not Marriott owned.

My knowledge of this is based on having worked for both Marriott corporate and Marriott franchises and having attended a few national Marriott leadership conferences when I worked in the hotel industry.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

thank you for buying a mcvail franchise. you may only use your designated vail supplied official vail burgers and official vail mayonaisse. failure to do so is a breach of the operational manual and franchise agreement.

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe it. Their compound on Winnipesaukee is insane. Like 5 or 6 homes side by side all in the 5k to 10k square foot plus range. Whole compound is probably worth around $100M. Kind of obnoxious and out of place to be honest