VAIL SUCKS

[deadheadskier]

My point about scalped tickets is that in the concert industry (professional sports too), ticketmaster / live nation sells off a huge percentage of tickets for popular bands to scalping agencies before they go on sale when the general public has the opportunity to buy them. Those scalping agencies such as Vivid Seats buy these tickets for more than face value and have demand pricing.

So apply that to ski areas. Mr Katz sells off a block of tickets for over face value to resellers and call those holiday dates "sold out", but they provide a link to a separate website such as Vivid where people can still buy them.

I was mainly joking. But you never know......

 

[Kingslug20]

DV is like Macys...used to be a high end place...not anymore.

 

[drjeff]

My point about scalped tickets is that in the concert industry (professional sports too), ticketmaster / live nation sells off a huge percentage of tickets for popular bands to scalping agencies before they go on sale when the general public has the opportunity to buy them. Those scalping agencies such as Vivid Seats buy these tickets for more than face value and have demand pricing.

So apply that to ski areas. Mr Katz sells off a block of tickets for over face value to resellers and call those holiday dates "sold out", but they provide a link to a separate website such as Vivid where people can still buy them.

I was mainly joking. But you never know......

Serious question. Is anyone aware of folks who weren't able to purchase a ticket at any of the Epic Resorts on the days during X-Mas week and MLK Weekend thus far that they siad that they were going to limit day ticket sales? I really can't recall seeing any chatter on social media about folks not being able to get a ticket.

Maybe that was some of the plan to create a sense of a limited product, get people to buy early and not just show up and push Epic Pass purchases on folks for next season under the idea that if they buy them next year, then they won't have to worry about potentially being unable to get on the hill during the high demand vacation times they want to ski?

I know that ski lesson availability is a totally different thing this year for many, but I can't recall reading anything about folks not being able to walk up and purchase a day pass during those "limited" times

 

[deadheadskier]

Haven't seen it at Vail properties in New England. Other places that cap capacity have sold out many weekend days. Gunstock and Pats as examples

 

[jimmywilson69]

I definitely bought my kid a Buddy ticket over the holiday period, and there were people buying tickets at Roundtop. So I'm sure limiting ticket sales was some sort of Bullshit, like pretty much everything they spew corporately.

 

[FBGM]

So a law "suite" is likely the office where the lawyer works. A "lawsuit" is what said lawyer files.

No one said IPhone autocorrect was smart. Good thing I’m not either.

 

[boston_e]

Serious question. Is anyone aware of folks who weren't able to purchase a ticket at any of the Epic Resorts on the days during X-Mas week and MLK Weekend thus far that they siad that they were going to limit day ticket sales? I really can't recall seeing any chatter on social media about folks not being able to get a ticket.

I am not... but, I honestly don't know if I am aware of any friends that are skiers that don't have either a season pass or some sort of pre-paid ticket "pass-like" product.

 

[thetrailboss]

My point about scalped tickets is that in the concert industry (professional sports too), ticketmaster / live nation sells off a huge percentage of tickets for popular bands to scalping agencies before they go on sale when the general public has the opportunity to buy them. Those scalping agencies such as Vivid Seats buy these tickets for more than face value and have demand pricing.

So apply that to ski areas. Mr Katz sells off a block of tickets for over face value to resellers and call those holiday dates "sold out", but they provide a link to a separate website such as Vivid where people can still buy them.

I was mainly joking. But you never know......

Absolutely makes sense. Is Liftopia still alive?

 

[abc]

Serious question. Is anyone aware of folks who weren't able to purchase a ticket at any of the Epic Resorts on the days during X-Mas week and MLK Weekend thus far that they siad that they were going to limit day ticket sales? I really can't recall seeing any chatter on social media about folks not being able to get a ticket.

Maybe that was some of the plan to create a sense of a limited product, get people to buy early and not just show up and push Epic Pass purchases on folks for next season under the idea that if they buy them next year, then they won't have to worry about potentially being unable to get on the hill during the high demand vacation times they want to ski?

I know that ski lesson availability is a totally different thing this year for many, but I can't recall reading anything about folks not being able to walk up and purchase a day pass during those "limited" times

But why would Vail sell them at face value to scalpers?

And, with all all the pass holders, who would bother running a scalper service? Who are they aiming for? Those few day trippers who didn't bother to plan ahead?

People keep comparing ski days to concert days, or Disney visits,. Apples and oranges. Concerts of big name bands only happens once a year, at best. So it's indeed a truly high demand and "limited supply". Ski days? A ski regular will go every weekend or at least 5-7 days each season. And even for those once a year "ski holiday'er", they can easily change plans to the next weekend, or the next mountain. The "supply" is hardly critical. Scalpers won't get much above face value.

Do you see ticket scalpers for Disney tickets? When a park is open year round, or a ski mountain open all winter, there's no "hard limit". Ski lift tickets are more like golf tee time. It's limited per day, but not limited once you adapt your plans to a different day. Scalpers don't have room to play.

Vail's strategy of advance purchases are a well known business practiced in many other industry. Rob Katz's contribution is to tailor it to the ski industry. It doesn't involve any sort of "limit". The only ski related product that tried to create some sort of buying frenzy with a made believe "limit" is Mountain Collective. It never bore fruit as far as pushing people to buy in a hurry.

The current talk of "limit" is more a temporary reaction by Vail to deal with selling too many passes (and the pass holders are focusing on a few mountains next to population centers)

 

[Domeskier]

As seen last weekend at Deer Valley (so much for that whole "old fashioned" hospitality thing):

Probably DV's way of signaling to its traditional clientele that the undesirables they see cluttering the slopes these days are actually paying customers and please stop complaining to us about poors stealing services - we're on top of that!

 

[pinion]

Probably DV's way of signaling to its traditional clientele that the undesirables they see cluttering the slopes these days are actually paying customers and please stop complaining to us about poors stealing services - we're on top of that!

Overcrowding at DV was a real issue in 2019/2020 with the Ikon Pass. Worst I had ever seen it, keeping in mind I ski there mainly during holiday periods. Some of this was likely due to pass swapping... like @thetrailboss mentioned earlier the old "hole punch" method worked well but the Ikon pass stuff throws a wrench in it especially with RFID gates installed and no actual person really checking passes.

There's only so many skiers that can come down that last section of Birdseye, or empty out to the top of Flagstaff. And more humorously, god forbid the Silver Lake Lodge general seating overfill and spill into the Mariposa... that'll get you some death stares.

Vail started it... sometimes feels like a race to the bottom right now. Maybe once Alterra and Vail are done with their growth phases they'll built in some tiers or something to resort access but until then Deer Valley and Beaver Creek are just as likely to get as overcrowded as PCMR and Vail, and if you've invested in DV/BC you're likely going to be pissed about that and accept any perceived attempt to calm things down. Even video surveillance apparently.

 

[deadheadskier]

But why would Vail sell them at face value to scalpers?

And, with all all the pass holders, who would bother running a scalper service? Who are they aiming for? Those few day trippers who didn't bother to plan ahead?

People keep comparing ski days to concert days, or Disney visits,. Apples and oranges. Concerts of big name bands only happens once a year, at best. So it's indeed a truly high demand and "limited supply". Ski days? A ski regular will go every weekend or at least 5-7 days each season. And even for those once a year "ski holiday'er", they can easily change plans to the next weekend, or the next mountain. The "supply" is hardly critical. Scalpers won't get much above face value.

Do you see ticket scalpers for Disney tickets? When a park is open year round, or a ski mountain open all winter, there's no "hard limit". Ski lift tickets are more like golf tee time. It's limited per day, but not limited once you adapt your plans to a different day. Scalpers don't have room to play.

Vail's strategy of advance purchases are a well known business practiced in many other industry. Rob Katz's contribution is to tailor it to the ski industry. It doesn't involve any sort of "limit". The only ski related product that tried to create some sort of buying frenzy with a made believe "limit" is Mountain Collective. It never bore fruit as far as pushing people to buy in a hurry.

The current talk of "limit" is more a temporary reaction by Vail to deal with selling too many passes (and the pass holders are focusing on a few mountains next to population centers)

I was really just joking

But in the concert industry, the promoters sell the tickets to scalpers before general on sale dates at higher than face value and then they get marked up from there. And often times that scalping agency is actually a business owned by Live Nation, so they benefit further.

The reason is the promoters are betting that the demand and price tolerance of the customers is higher than what the bands want to charge their fans.

Numerous bands have fought back against this shady practice, but Live Nation basically has a Monopoly in all of the major venues. Pearl Jam and Nine Inch Nails would be two of such bands. The best they could do was bargain for an allotment of tickets to their fan club that can only be purchased at Face Value.

Again just joking that Rob Katz is evil enough and Vail's monopoly in some areas large enough, that he might think that a similar greedy strategy would work in the ski business.

 

[machski]

Well, since I have an Epic and have to go out to Columbus, OH for recurrent, doing a first and dragging my ski gear with. Suppose to dump out there tomorrow so figure I'll go ski the POW at Mad River, OH. Doesn't cost me a thing!

 

[KustyTheKlown]

But why would Vail sell them at face value to scalpers?

And, with all all the pass holders, who would bother running a scalper service? Who are they aiming for? Those few day trippers who didn't bother to plan ahead?

People keep comparing ski days to concert days, or Disney visits,. Apples and oranges. Concerts of big name bands only happens once a year, at best. So it's indeed a truly high demand and "limited supply". Ski days? A ski regular will go every weekend or at least 5-7 days each season. And even for those once a year "ski holiday'er", they can easily change plans to the next weekend, or the next mountain. The "supply" is hardly critical. Scalpers won't get much above face value.

Do you see ticket scalpers for Disney tickets? When a park is open year round, or a ski mountain open all winter, there's no "hard limit". Ski lift tickets are more like golf tee time. It's limited per day, but not limited once you adapt your plans to a different day. Scalpers don't have room to play.

Vail's strategy of advance purchases are a well known business practiced in many other industry. Rob Katz's contribution is to tailor it to the ski industry. It doesn't involve any sort of "limit". The only ski related product that tried to create some sort of buying frenzy with a made believe "limit" is Mountain Collective. It never bore fruit as far as pushing people to buy in a hurry.

The current talk of "limit" is more a temporary reaction by Vail to deal with selling too many passes (and the pass holders are focusing on a few mountains next to population centers)

they would sell them to some owned or affiliated resale entity. this is basically what ticketmaster does. they sell face value ticket to their own reseller who then marks them up to 'market value'

and a huge chunk of the music world isn't a 'one concert a year thing'. people drop their lives to see phish or dead and company all summer long and need tix to every show on their route.

its not hard for me to imagine a future where vail puts an actual hard limit on day of tickets but directs you to their secondary market partner for the busiest days of the season, and your $200 day ticket becomes a $500 one

 

[thetrailboss]

Overcrowding at DV was a real issue in 2019/2020 with the Ikon Pass. Worst I had ever seen it, keeping in mind I ski there mainly during holiday periods. Some of this was likely due to pass swapping... like @thetrailboss mentioned earlier the old "hole punch" method worked well but the Ikon pass stuff throws a wrench in it especially with RFID gates installed and no actual person really checking passes.

There's only so many skiers that can come down that last section of Birdseye, or empty out to the top of Flagstaff. And more humorously, god forbid the Silver Lake Lodge general seating overfill and spill into the Mariposa... that'll get you some death stares.

Vail started it... sometimes feels like a race to the bottom right now. Maybe once Alterra and Vail are done with their growth phases they'll built in some tiers or something to resort access but until then Deer Valley and Beaver Creek are just as likely to get as overcrowded as PCMR and Vail, and if you've invested in DV/BC you're likely going to be pissed about that and accept any perceived attempt to calm things down. Even video surveillance apparently.

I'm pretty sure that DVR had video surveillance in 2019 at the gates. Maybe not, but I think they did.

 

[2Planker]

Well, since I have an Epic and have to go out to Columbus, OH for recurrent, doing a first and dragging my ski gear with. Suppose to dump out there tomorrow so figure I'll go ski the POW at Mad River, OH. Doesn't cost me a thing!

Ha Ha.... Have Fun !!
I went to college 20 miles away. Thought about going there. Until we drove by......

 

[machski]

Ha Ha.... Have Fun !!
I went to college 20 miles away. Thought about going there. Until we drove by......

Yeah, not expecting much. A bit better than McIntyre hopefully , a brew and a burger after remote recurrent class from hotel!

 

[Tonyr]

Serious question. Is anyone aware of folks who weren't able to purchase a ticket at any of the Epic Resorts on the days during X-Mas week and MLK Weekend thus far that they siad that they were going to limit day ticket sales? I really can't recall seeing any chatter on social media about folks not being able to get a ticket.

Maybe that was some of the plan to create a sense of a limited product, get people to buy early and not just show up and push Epic Pass purchases on folks for next season under the idea that if they buy them next year, then they won't have to worry about potentially being unable to get on the hill during the high demand vacation times they want to ski?

I know that ski lesson availability is a totally different thing this year for many, but I can't recall reading anything about folks not being able to walk up and purchase a day pass during those "limited" times

I'm not sure if they were limiting day tickets out at Vail and Beaver Creek when I was there over Christmas/New Years. I know that it was not nearly as crowded as I thought it would be. Although some of that could have been due to the Covid outbreaks that happened throughout Vail Valley during that timeframe.

I do know for a fact that Vail definitely limited day tickets at Stowe on the Sunday of MLK weekend. That Saturday I was riding the lift up with non pass holders that wanted to ski Stowe on Sunday as well but they were not able to buy day tickets for that date.

 

[RichT]

That guy has way too much money then...

NOT if he keeps doing stuff like that!

 

[thetrailboss]

Guest opinion: Subpar experience at PCMR is unsustainable

Vail Resorts and Park City Mountain Resort are in the midst of delivering a miserable experience both to locals and visitors.

www.parkrecord.com