VAIL SUCKS

[icecoast1]

I looked on NESH and Mount Snow last went beyond the 24th in '07-08 when they made it to the 27th.

As much as people love to rag on "Mt. Blow" they are in a pretty good snow belt and can usually eek out more than Stratton, Okemo, and Magic. The big caveat being temperatures. I can remember a lot of years with good natural snow and "normal" temperature springs Mount Snow could go far. Much of their natural terrain is also narrow/shady. This is all compared to their competition...Okemo/Stratton.

It's not really ragging on them, it's just stating the simple reality that given the current snow depths and weather outlook, the 24th is a huge stretch. What used to happen is pretty much out the window now with the Vail operation

 

[drjeff]

It's not really ragging on them, it's just stating the simple reality that given the current snow depths and weather outlook, the 24th is a huge stretch. What used to happen is pretty much out the window now with the Vail operation

Serious question, especially when it comes to Mount Snow and llate season operations? Is a 2nd or 3rd weekend of April closing date really any different now than it was under Peak or even ASC before that?

I mean as regular there for a few decades, once or twice they hit early May, and once or twice, courtesy of Mother Nature (and COVID), they didn't make April. Realistucally they close, somewhere in the April 10th to 20th range the vast majority of seasons, which short of 2 years ago when COVID ended everything Mid March, Vail has operated Mount Snow with that mid April closing date that is very typical for Mount Snow.

Now how Vail is operating other mountains is certainly open for debate, with respect to season length, however it seems thus far for Mount Snow atleast that Vail is following along with what the "normal" season length is

 

[pinion]

Agreed, Peak had Snow opened into April and I don't see Vail really doing anything different from that existing playbook. If snowmaking was lacking early season it seems that they've made up for it since then. Operations isn't my issue with Vail re: Mount Snow. Crowds are. Always been crowded... Peak got them to max capacity most weekends... Vail has extended them so far beyond capacity that someone like me won't be back until April anyway because their core NY demo will already be planning out golf season by then and won't be on the slopes.

@drjeff wondering how your experience at Atticat was for your daughter's race?

 

[jaytrem]

Nope, that was the weekend before on the Northface.

The last weekend last year was Carinthia only, 100% certain of that, and that last weekend it finally snowed an apperciable amount for the 1st time in probably over a month, with some nice powder on Saturday that tuned into sticky snow by Sunday

That does sound familiar. I think I did something else or went somewhere else that weekend. Must be getting old, can't remember what or where!

 

[drjeff]

Agreed, Peak had Snow opened into April and I don't see Vail really doing anything different from that existing playbook. If snowmaking was lacking early season it seems that they've made up for it since then. Operations isn't my issue with Vail re: Mount Snow. Crowds are. Always been crowded... Peak got them to max capacity most weekends... Vail has extended them so far beyond capacity that someone like me won't be back until April anyway because their core NY demo will already be planning out golf season by then and won't be on the slopes.

@drjeff wondering how your experience at Atticat was for your daughter's race?

Her race experince at Attitash was good. Nothing special results wise, but she exceeded her rather modest goals she had for herself finish wise so no complaints as she finished out her highschool ski racing career!

Seeing how Attitash was allowed to operate this season by the corporate folks out in CO, was eye opening. Felt bad for the core staff there whom I sure feel so frustrated with what is going on there, at a place so many of them have deep ties and connections to and know how it can be operated.

And amazingly enough, both the Summit Triple and Bear Peak HSQ never broke down when I was on them last weekend..... Having the Yankee down for the hydraulic ram issue the entire time I was there wasn't fun, and really made getting back to the Bear Peak side a chore.

And I definitely had forgotten what fun terrain Attitash has in the probably 20 years it had been since I last skied there!

 

[icecoast1]

Serious question, especially when it comes to Mount Snow and llate season operations? Is a 2nd or 3rd weekend of April closing date really any different now than it was under Peak or even ASC before that?

I mean as regular there for a few decades, once or twice they hit early May, and once or twice, courtesy of Mother Nature (and COVID), they didn't make April. Realistucally they close, somewhere in the April 10th to 20th range the vast majority of seasons, which short of 2 years ago when COVID ended everything Mid March, Vail has operated Mount Snow with that mid April closing date that is very typical for Mount Snow.

Now how Vail is operating other mountains is certainly open for debate, with respect to season length, however it seems thus far for Mount Snow atleast that Vail is following along with what the "normal" season length is

Do you think if there's ever a window of opportunity to make snow and open Mt Snow in October, Vail will do that? I don't. By the numbers on a computer screen, yes the season is pretty close to identical to what it was, and they have made a lot of snow but in reality they aren't nearly as aggressive with snowmaking as the trend was heading post west lake with peak. All of this March snowmaking is nice, but would it really have been necessary other than maybe a light resurface if they had actually taken advantage of all of the chances they had earlier in the year when it was much colder. This attempt to stay open is nothing more than an attempt to save face with tanking stock prices, lots of unhappy customers and an impending mass Exodus to Ikon and other passes

 

[ThatGuy]

Look better to blow a shit ton of snow at the tail end of the season rather than build the base consistently over the season. Now people will think Vail made a huge effort when they really did the bare minimum to keep people placid.

 

[ThatGuy]

Regardless of upper management the employees at Mt. Snow have been great. The lifties are always friendly and remember my name, plus snowmakers have done great with the windows Vail gives them.

 

[sull1102]

Went out at Snow this morning for a couple runs off the Canyon quad, as you can imagine it was brutal, but a pair of snowmakers were out connecting every other fan on Canyon and it looks like they’ll be blowing there tonight when it drops to 20 or so. I noticed this last month at Stowe, the off loading ramps are absolute horrific at Vail resorts. Seems like they just let the groomer do their best and no one is doing anything the rest of the day. Huge chunks of ice getting off Canyon this am, felt bad for some of the newer skiers that were making the best of the conditions. I have an Epic Pass midweek and a New England pass this year and the difference between Snow/Stowe and Sunday River/Loon has been incredible to witness first hand. I can’t picture myself renewing my epic pass.

 

[drjeff]

Do you think if there's ever a window of opportunity to make snow and open Mt Snow in October, Vail will do that? I don't. By the numbers on a computer screen, yes the season is pretty close to identical to what it was, and they have made a lot of snow but in reality they aren't nearly as aggressive with snowmaking as the trend was heading post west lake with peak. All of this March snowmaking is nice, but would it really have been necessary other than maybe a light resurface if they had actually taken advantage of all of the chances they had earlier in the year when it was much colder. This attempt to stay open is nothing more than an attempt to save face with tanking stock prices, lots of unhappy customers and an impending mass Exodus to Ikon and other passes

I agree that an October opening is likely off the table. Pretty sure over the last 10 years, the weather only allowed for that 1 time though anyway.

Historically, on average, the Mount Snow season has been an opening the 2nd or 3rd weekend of November and a Closing the 2nd or 3rd weekend of April, and that is regardless of ownership.

Snowmaking wise, over the last decade or so, especially as the industry went big tme to low e fan guns and air/water guns as well, and they got more and more objective data about what it costs to make snow at various temperatures, it seems like the modern snow making strategy is from opening until early January, run the system aggressively when they get most windows to do so that are 12-18 hours or longer, to get trails open as well as get some early season base depths to help hold off any potential early warm, melting events.

Once they get past roughly MLK Day, especially if they have the snowmaking terrain open, unless its a freeze up after a thaw event or need more snow for park building, they now tend to wait for more efficient windows where the equipment is operating at/near maximum effciency and cost effectiveness in a effort to either put a 2nd run down on some of the lower priority snowmaking terrain as well as start to really build the depths on the core terrain. And that phase now typically goes from mid January through mid February. This season also apparently some of Mount Snow's snowmaking crew was "loaned out" for a week or 2 to some of the sister Vail resorts that had smaller crews this season to play snowmaking catch up for those other resorts.

Once they get to Mid February now, it seems like that's when they get a bit more aggressive with the system on higher priorty trails that will be part of the operations plan for late season. And March now, if it's going to happen and the Spring depth building is done, is only about core trail resurfacing after a freeze up.

When you factor in the efficiency, objective data that they have along with the snowsat system they run in some of the cats that gives the mtn ops folks an actual look at how much base depth is over anywhere on the mountain a cat equipped with it goes, how they view the entire season of snowmaking ops certainly has changed over the last decade plus. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Not sure as both the old school ways of run it whenever and the new way of factoring in efficiency, sure seems to yield seasons that are pretty close in length

 

[ctdubl07]

To add to DJ's post, I dont see much point to opening in Oct. considering chance of a significant warm ups, multiple rain events or lack of cold in ground to est good base. Plus you have so many families still involved with wknd sports thru 11/1, hard to get additional margins. This years snowmaking has been super aggressive to the point where its something Vail should be lauded for, especially this late in season, when benched against all the operational complaints posted here re: other locations.
Last week/end they blew a sh*t ton on Carinthia at Fools and Nitro. Both were closed all wknd with monster whales on top of previous builds. That will be a good stock piles to continue to push out, like they did last season in April, to extend trail surface. It will be down to wknd only ops toward the end and Carinthia the last hold out.

An observation about a "new" cultural phenomenon that I think is a byproduct of the Mtn under last seasons Covid operations, the parking lots have a lot more tailgating than in past years. Thats not something that MSer's did in past. I like to see it other than the trash in my side yard or tons of cans on p-lot but Ops are out every morning cleaning the parking lot pretty diligently.

 

[ThatGuy]

This years snowmaking has been super aggressive to the point where its something Vail should be lauded for, especially this late in season

Have we been skiing at the same mountain? This years snowmaking has been anything but aggressive and they’re making a bunch now because the mountain wouldn’t have made it another two weeks with the way it was looking. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the snow being blow but aggressive isn’t the word Id use.

 

[pinion]

I appreciate the snow being blow but aggressive isn’t the word Id use

Defensive snow making

 

[2Planker]

Defensive snow making

What is this snow making you speak of ??
Sorry, we are from WildCat

 

[Mum skier]

I noticed Vail announced that Vail would extend opening to 1st May.
Now given we will probably ditch Epic after this year, and given that I have never skied at Vail (done Beaver Creek, Keystone and Steamboat in CO), and given that the kids have the week starting 18th April off school, should we make the effort to ski Vail once before moving to other pastures.
How much might still be open and how busy would it likely be as it’s Easter weekend. Unfortunately I start a new job in a couple weeks, so I can hardly take the full week off so it would be something like leave Thursday before Good Friday return Tuesday or Weds after Easter Monday. So a holiday and a weekend and probably limited terrain. Recipe for disaster?

 

[Edd]

I noticed Vail announced that Vail would extend opening to 1st May.
Now given we will probably ditch Epic after this year, and given that I have never skied at Vail (done Beaver Creek, Keystone and Steamboat in CO), and given that the kids have the week starting 18th April off school, should we make the effort to ski Vail once before moving to other pastures.
How much might still be open and how busy would it likely be as it’s Easter weekend. Unfortunately I start a new job in a couple weeks, so I can hardly take the full week off so it would be something like leave Thursday before Good Friday return Tuesday or Weds after Easter Monday. So a holiday and a weekend and probably limited terrain. Recipe for disaster?

With those parameters....I wouldn't. Was going to say yes but those days could be bad.

 

[FBGM]

Heard Elk was brutal today. My dad skied (by ski I mean 3 runs on boiler plate then to bar)

I closed my little place. Wind rowed and pushed out everything to air and dry. Collect a few inches of natty tomorrow. Then will double till everything for Friday/Sat/Sun. Should be decent. But it’s a semi private bump

 

[JoeB-Z]

I have an Epic weekday pass. Given the current emergency, what is best? I usually ski at Magic (season pass) but it is looking sad. My VT place is halfway between Okemo and Sunapee. I think I head to Mt. Snow but I have five days at Stowe left. And then the damn gas. Anyone want to share gas from Ascutney to Stowe?

 

[ThatGuy]

I have an Epic weekday pass. Given the current emergency, what is best? I usually ski at Magic (season pass) but it is looking sad. My VT place is halfway between Okemo and Sunapee. I think I head to Mt. Snow but I have five days at Stowe left. And then the damn gas. Anyone want to share gas from Ascutney to Stowe?

Honestly I wouldn’t even make the extra drive to Stowe, they got hit pretty hard from this rain as well.

 

[chuckstah]

It looks like Wildcat has at least one gun running. I guess they can't close before next season's passes go on sale. Or is this fake news.....