VAIL SUCKS

[jimmywilson69]

Guy who is in like the 3.47% minority of people who can ski solely on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursday doesn't understand the problem.

Though to be fair, it is because he's "smart enough", not because has a livelihood which affords him that lucky, unique, and rare opportunity.

Sorry I'm smart enough to take a ski vacation during the week... and of course my livelihood affords me to take a ski vacation. A two week one at that split between VT and CO.

I avoid skiing on weekends at these places because I can, and I'm not going to feel bad about that. You and the other half of this forum that moved to Utah are as much or more of the problem than these passes. Maybe come to terms with that.

News break, ski resorts are crowded on the weekend. who knew...

 

[BenedictGomez]

Got it. So we really aren't talking about "banning" STRs per se, more just tighter zoning.

I think whether "ban" or "zoning" is dependent on the area. Here, for instance, Park City is talking not about banning them, but making sure they're at least all licensed and known, maybe increasing the fees, etc...; it's estimated only something like 1 in 5 AirBnbs in Park City are properly operating. If that's as far as they take it it's not going to make any difference. Nobody will care if they have to pay a $100 license fee, that's 1/3 of one night's stay. I personally think they should disincentivize STR as much as possible, perhaps short of an actual ban, to greatly help with long-term rental inventory.

Then you have towns like Kamas/Francis, which was historically very rural, but is now getting developed with housing developments and condos talking about STR bans. Those folks arent happy with how their community's changing. Frankly though, Airbnb doesnt need to worry about the little Kamas' of the world banning STR, but the fact major metropolitan cities like Berlin, New York City, Dallas, Barcelona, etc.... are starting to enact bans could be a big deal

 

[BenedictGomez]

You and the other half of this forum that moved to Utah are as much or more of the problem than these passes. Maybe come to terms with that.

No. We. Are. Not.

This has been (really rather easily) debunked with some pretty basic demographic information available in maybe 47 seconds to 3.4 minutes of Googling, depending upon how skillful you are.

It's the EPIC & IKON passes leading to crowds everywhere, not "PeEpUl ALL MovEd TWo tEh MounTaiNS". Stowe is also a poopload more crowded than it ever used to be prior to Vail Resorts ownership, and last I checked nobody put up skyscrapers in Morrisville and Johnson. It is literally impacting every famous Alterra & Vail resort. So yes, it really is about the mega passes. This isnt hard.

 

[thetrailboss]

There is indeed local population growth here and that is an issue. But having a high-volume business model using discounted season passes only dumps kerosine on the fire. The crowding issues in the Cottonwoods Canyons literally started the year when IKON came out. I saw it firsthand.

 

[ThatGuy]

It was only your 3rd day ever snowboarding and you went to the top of 9990?

Yeah it was pretty easy to pick up I used to skateboard alot as a kid, was on blues after two runs down High Meadow. But it also didn’t go very well on 9990. Now I have ~40 days on the board and can make it down anything except tight trees.

 

[ThatGuy]

Or..your so good at skiing..that you need to try something else.
I know a few people who do both...to keep it interesting.

Thats why I picked it up, and its more fun on slushy spring days

 

[BenedictGomez]

The crowding issues in the Cottonwoods Canyons literally started the year when IKON came out. I saw it firsthand.

To add anecdotal evidence to the more valid demographic evidence, it's pretty rare at Park City to share a chair with someone else who lives in Utah. Probably something like a 1 in 15 occurrence or maybe even less. I get more Atlanta and Chicago than I get Salt Lake City. It's actually kind of nice meeting people from all over, but at the end of the day Vail's business model is literally to import people to its areas, to its hotels, and to its restaurants.

 

[deadheadskier]

Vail / iKon could tell you probably within a few percentage points where the skier traffic is coming from; local vs destination traveler. It's all in the pass scanning data. If I were a local planning board member in the impacted communities, I'd demand this information of those businesses. Kinda surprised it's not published information given how newsworthy the traffic problems are for SLC and I-70. Maybe it is. I admittedly haven't bothered to look it up as I have no plans on skiing Colorado or Utah in the near future.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail / iKon could tell you probably within a few percentage points where the skier traffic is coming from; local vs destination traveler. It's all in the pass scanning data. If I were a local planning board member in the impacted communities, I'd demand this information of those businesses. Kinda surprised it's not published information given how newsworthy the traffic problems are for SLC and I-70. Maybe it is. I admittedly haven't bothered to look it up as I have no plans on skiing Colorado or Utah in the near future.

Both consider such information highly proprietary. IIRC Park City DID ask for such info from Vail and didn't get it.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would push back and say no on mountain infrastructure projects will be reviewed, nevermind approved without usage data. How do the towns / state plan transportation infrastructure without knowing traffic impacts by major businesses?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Both consider such information highly proprietary. IIRC Park City DID ask for such info from Vail and didn't get it.

Vail wont even tell Park City what it states internally that its comfortable daily carrying capacity is.

Why would you keep that figure a secret?

The only thing I can think of is if you either want to push beyond it anyway, or if you know you're already beyond it sometimes (e.g. Christmas week).

 

[BenedictGomez]

Vail just spent $20M buying its own stock the last 3 months. Decrepit, aging lifts be damned.

Vail Mood:

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail wont even tell Park City what it states internally that its comfortable daily carrying capacity is.

Why would you keep that figure a secret?

The only thing I can think of is if you either want to push beyond it anyway, or if you know you're already beyond it sometimes (e.g. Christmas week).

That’s the info that the City wanted. They had an MOU with the previous regime as to limits and Vail didn’t want them seeing if they were complying.