VAIL SUCKS

[eatskisleep]

This post reads like they’re taking cues from Erik down the road.

Minus the timeline… absolutely. It’s about time, great to see some transparency from the Cat.

 

[snoseek]

Just rip the fucking piece of shit out and throw in a cheap new triple. Enough already i dont use it but this is base level stuff and it's insane not ro have a viable beginner area.

 

[snoseek]

On a separate note attitash skied pretty good today. Chalky whales all the way down illusion. Im ok with how things run at attitash currently.

 

[thetrailboss]

Maybe they hired the same team that installed Magic's quad....

I thought that Mighty Vail was big on lifts? They cannot find someone to fix this right and on time before the season starts?

 

[doublediamond]

Vail ripped out plenty of of young fixed grip triples and quads a few years back. Shame they scrapped them all. Shows they don't know what they're doing.

 

[ThatGuy]

Soloman QST 112

I have the 98s, my favorite pair of skis

 

[jimmywilson69]

I skied 98s when I was Demoing out in CO early this season. Strong consideration for my next ski even though I love my ripsticks

 

[deadheadskier]

Just rip the fucking piece of shit out and throw in a cheap new triple. Enough already i dont use it but this is base level stuff and it's insane not ro have a viable beginner area.

I think that's a feature and not a bug. Ever since Vail took over they treat Attitash and Wildcat as one mountain. They don't care if the beginner experience at Cat suffers if Attitash has something to offer. And they don't care if they don't get to offering the good expert terrain at Attitash until February if at all. People can drive 30 minutes to Wildcat if they want that.

I'd also argue the same fate has now happened to Crotched. Given the weather we've had, their terrain offerings right now are the most pathetic I've seen since I started skiing and paying attention to Crotched in 2012. Vail simply must believe that folks can go to Sunapee instead if CM doesn't have enough terrain open yet to satisfy. If I were a SWNH local who used to call CM home, Id absolutely switch to Pats plus Indy add on.

 

[Smellytele]

I think that's a feature and not a bug. Ever since Vail took over they treat Attitash and Wildcat as one mountain. They don't care if the beginner experience at Cat suffers if Attitash has something to offer. And they don't care if they don't get to offering the good expert terrain at Attitash until February if at all. People can drive 30 minutes to Wildcat if they want that.

I'd also argue the same fate has now happened to Crotched. Given the weather we've had, their terrain offerings right now are the most pathetic I've seen since I started skiing and paying attention to Crotched in 2012. Vail simply must believe that folks can go to Sunapee instead if CM doesn't have enough terrain open yet to satisfy. If I were a SWNH local who used to call CM home, Id absolutely switch to Pats plus Indy add on.

Yesterday I saw crotched from a distance and thought I was imagining it but most of the upper trails had bare spots all over them. No way those were open. I guess I should believe my eyes.

 

[jimmywilson69]

The operations in NH are a true head scratcher and I am THANKFUL that this edict has not spread to central PA. I do believe at least in some capacity it exists in western PA with 7 Springs, Hidden Valley, and Laurel Mountain. In the Poconos Jack Frost doesn't have lights so during the week Big Boulder operates as the "night skiing" operation opening at 3 or something. I THINK BB used to open all day under peaks, but I've never been there.

 

[AdironRider]

I think that's a feature and not a bug. Ever since Vail took over they treat Attitash and Wildcat as one mountain. They don't care if the beginner experience at Cat suffers if Attitash has something to offer. And they don't care if they don't get to offering the good expert terrain at Attitash until February if at all. People can drive 30 minutes to Wildcat if they want that.

I'd also argue the same fate has now happened to Crotched. Given the weather we've had, their terrain offerings right now are the most pathetic I've seen since I started skiing and paying attention to Crotched in 2012. Vail simply must believe that folks can go to Sunapee instead if CM doesn't have enough terrain open yet to satisfy. If I were a SWNH local who used to call CM home, Id absolutely switch to Pats plus Indy add on.

Does Pats plus Indy add on really fix that problem?

Don't get me wrong, I've gone the full independent route with the College areas plus Indy and haven't looked back, but if there is one downside to that, its the lack of difficult terrain options available until mid-January early Feb. I think that trade is well worth it for basically zero stress skiing, but it is basically the only downside.

 

[deadheadskier]

Does Pats plus Indy add on really fix that problem?

Don't get me wrong, I've gone the full independent route with the College areas plus Indy and haven't looked back, but if there is one downside to that, its the lack of difficult terrain options available until mid-January early Feb. I think that trade is well worth it for basically zero stress skiing, but it is basically the only downside.

In regards to my Pat's + Indy suggestion, I wasn't really saying that as an option for solving a lack of expert terrain early season. That comment about expert terrain was specific to Attitash. CM doesn't really have snowmaking expert terrain anyway. It's the large amount of basic cruising terrain and the park that traditionally would have all been open by now and is sitting bare.

My point is, that if I'm a SW NH resident, say Peterborough, and I'm seeing Vail spin their wheels into January at CM basically forcing me up the road to uber crowded Sunapee, I'm taking Pat's for my local convenient option and adding Indy for bigger mountain variety.

You're right. Indy is far from perfect, especially early season. But it's better than Vail / Epic for a NH based skier.

 

[danimals]

The operations in NH are a true head scratcher and I am THANKFUL that this edict has not spread to central PA. I do believe at least in some capacity it exists in western PA with 7 Springs, Hidden Valley, and Laurel Mountain. In the Poconos Jack Frost doesn't have lights so during the week Big Boulder operates as the "night skiing" operation opening at 3 or something. I THINK BB used to open all day under peaks, but I've never been there.

The vail shenanigans have spread to PA. Under peaks, big boulder had world class (not an exaggeration) terrain parks. Now big boulder and jack frost have a handful of features between the two hills and are ride-on beginner level stuff.

The snowmaking at BB is abysmal. They used to be first to open last to close but now lag behind every other ski area in the pocono region.

And the situation at whitetail is unbelievable. They have trails that have not been touched by snowmaking so far, and they cant blame the weather. there are days/nights with weather in the high teens and early 20's where the guns are silent. The lift keeps breaking down so they have people hiking uphill on a connector trail to get to the expert pod.

Mount snow? what ever happened to the west lake snowmaking system? seems like vail just forgot about it since purchasing mount snow.

I was a peak pass die hard. Every single ski area that was under peaks has gotten exponentially worse since vail took over.

 

[drjeff]

Mount snow? what ever happened to the west lake snowmaking system? seems like vail just forgot about it since purchasing mount snow.

I was a peak pass die hard. Every single ski area that was under peaks has gotten exponentially worse since vail took over.

Have you actually been to Mount Snow this season? They have, and still are, making a TON of snow. Rumor on the hill is that they're closing in on going through the volume that West Lake can hold twice now this season.

What has seemed to change though, is when they're working on opening up a trail, they're making much more snow on it than they used to, kind of a lay it on deep and then not have to go back to it to fatten in up, rather than lay it on thin to get it open and then come back to it later to augment the base depths type of strategy. There are currently maybe 5 or 6 so snowmaking trails, per my recollection, that haven't seen any gun time yet this season, 3 of which I suspect where supposed to get some gun time the last few days, until it looked like from the excavator and welding equipment on the hill, that one of the water pipes blew out in the area, as the snowmaking equipment was staged in the Ego Alley/Somerset Road/Drop area and was on the stated snowreport list of starting soon late last week.

What Mount Snow suffers from trail count wise, is while the snowmaking system covers around 80% of their total acreage, that isn't 80% of their total trails, and they rely on mother nature for 25 or so of their trails still, and it's still "low tide" when it comes to the natural snow terrain coverage on the mountain now. They need maybe another 8-12" to get the natural snow trail count significantly increasing, as when they have opened some of them, especially the steeper ones, they tend to stay open for a day or 2, before they get skied/ridden off enough for patrol to have to put the rope back up

 

[thetrailboss]

In regards to my Pat's + Indy suggestion, I wasn't really saying that as an option for solving a lack of expert terrain early season. That comment about expert terrain was specific to Attitash. CM doesn't really have snowmaking expert terrain anyway. It's the large amount of basic cruising terrain and the park that traditionally would have all been open by now and is sitting bare.

My point is, that if I'm a SW NH resident, say Peterborough, and I'm seeing Vail spin their wheels into January at CM basically forcing me up the road to uber crowded Sunapee, I'm taking Pat's for my local convenient option and adding Indy for bigger mountain variety.

You're right. Indy is far from perfect, especially early season. But it's better than Vail / Epic for a NH based skier.

Our resident CM/Vail defender has been absent as of late.

 

[snoseek]

Have you actually been to Mount Snow this season? They have, and still are, making a TON of snow. Rumor on the hill is that they're closing on going through the volume that West Lake can hold twice now this season.

What has seemed to change though, is when they're working on opening up a trail, they're making much more snow on it than they used to, kind of a lay it on deep and than not have to go back to it to fatten in up, rather than lay it on thin to get it open and then come back to it later to augment the base depths type of strategy. There are currently maybe 5 or so snowmaking trails, per my recollection, that haven't seen any gun time yet this season, 3 of which I suspect where supposed to get some gun time the last few days, until it looked like from the excavator and welding equipment on the hill, that one of the water pipes blew out in the area, as the snowmaking equipment was staged in the Ego Alley/Somerset Road/Drop area and was on the stated snowreport list of starting soon late last week.

What Mount Snow suffers from trail count wise, is while the snowmaking system covers around 80% of their total acreage, that isn't 80% of their total trails, and they rely on mother nature for 25 or so of their trails still, and it's still "low tide" when it comes to the natural snow terrain coverage on the mountain now. They need maybe another 8-12" to get the natural snow trail count significantly increasing, as when they have opened some of them, especially the steeper ones, they tend to stay open for a day or 2, before they get skied/ridden off enough for patrol to have to put the rope back up

I ended up at sunapee today and looking around they seem to have that same plan. They've blown snow like crazy.

I think the wildcat thing has been a lack of water and wind stripping the place clean. Aside from that they've made a reasonably decent effort in day to day operations. Vail really could put some money into both snowmaking and lifts and sell alot more passes in nh.

 

[jimmywilson69]

The vail shenanigans have spread to PA. Under peaks, big boulder had world class (not an exaggeration) terrain parks. Now big boulder and jack frost have a handful of features between the two hills and are ride-on beginner level stuff.

The snowmaking at BB is abysmal. They used to be first to open last to close but now lag behind every other ski area in the pocono region.

And the situation at whitetail is unbelievable. They have trails that have not been touched by snowmaking so far, and they cant blame the weather. there are days/nights with weather in the high teens and early 20's where the guns are silent. The lift keeps breaking down so they have people hiking uphill on a connector trail to get to the expert pod.

Mount snow? what ever happened to the west lake snowmaking system? seems like vail just forgot about it since purchasing mount snow.

I was a peak pass die hard. Every single ski area that was under peaks has gotten exponentially worse since vail took over.

The 2 front side trails without snowmaking are always last at Whitetail. They are in trouble with water, as is Roundtop as we had a quite the drought. no expansion at Roundtop in weeks but they have been building base becasue its forecast to be in the 50s for the next 4 days and snowmaking temps dont return until after MLK day. My buddy grooms at RT and the decision was made to build the bases to be melt proof vs expanding. I get that...

As to the lift at Whitetail they had a gearbox go on the 1991 high speed and the manufactured F'd it up when it was replaced in the offseason. That lift unfortunately probably needs to be on the replacement list, but they'll likely limp along for longer than they should...

All of the places in PA are good revenue generators but likely not keeping as much of it locally for improvements as they should.

 

[2Planker]

I ended up at sunapee today and looking around they seem to have that same plan. They've blown snow like crazy.

I think the wildcat thing has been a lack of water and wind stripping the place clean. Aside from that they've made a reasonably decent effort in day to day operations. Vail really could put some money into both snowmaking and lifts and sell alot more passes in nh.

No lack of water at The Cat.
Snowmaking pond is as full as it has ever been.

 

[Internet Ski Pro]

The vail shenanigans have spread to PA. Under peaks, big boulder had world class (not an exaggeration) terrain parks. Now big boulder and jack frost have a handful of features between the two hills and are ride-on beginner level stuff.

The snowmaking at BB is abysmal. They used to be first to open last to close but now lag behind every other ski area in the pocono region.

And the situation at whitetail is unbelievable. They have trails that have not been touched by snowmaking so far, and they cant blame the weather. there are days/nights with weather in the high teens and early 20's where the guns are silent. The lift keeps breaking down so they have people hiking uphill on a connector trail to get to the expert pod.

Mount snow? what ever happened to the west lake snowmaking system? seems like vail just forgot about it since purchasing mount snow.

I was a peak pass die hard. Every single ski area that was under peaks has gotten exponentially worse since vail took over.

i was a JFBB skier when it was Peak. i think sometime around 2014 i left for something different. Peak really did a good job snowmaking, and wasnt afraid to put things on full blast. even when they opened BB first, when they opened JF for the season, it was quite a few trails, not the weak offering they do now. And East Mountain would open quickly after, of course as weather permitted, but they wouldnt fool around getting it open. For the little place that it is, there are a few off trail areas that are quite fun, and Peak would pay a little bit more attention to those, but not so much with Vail. i have watched Vail manage the place now for years, and its pretty apparent they just dont care about the skier experience there, its just there to get people to buy the pass. They have upgraded a bunch of lifts, but thats just so they dont get sued when there was a problem. Its just that they take the snowmaking approach at one speed. they wont dial it up when temps are ideal, they just run snowmaking at 25 percent, if that, and they are ok if 100% open doesnt happen until February. I did have an epic pass for a while to ski some resorts out west, and i have gone to JF probably twice in the past 10 years. Bored my face off.

Alot of the snowmaking at Frost is portable stuff, and that takes way more labor, which i doubt they are flush with.

today they show 13 trails open of 20. they have 1 trail open on East Mountain, and 3 of the closed trails are still on the West side or what ever you want to call it. Its been plenty cold that they could have been 100% open if they wanted to. oh yeah, and im no park skier but i have heard the same thing, that one park is like 3 small features.

I can be wrong, but i dont think they open snowtubing any more. and i get it, we all hate tubing, and it is for the truly talentless in life, but its like printing money. i bet the before/after ticket money spent by tubers is well above the average day pass skier. Everyone that goes tubing needs a pair of gloves and googles, buys a cocoa, chicken fingers and a cup of chili.

 

[SLyardsale]

Have you actually been to Mount Snow this season? They have, and still are, making a TON of snow. Rumor on the hill is that they're closing in on going through the volume that West Lake can hold twice now this season.

What has seemed to change though, is when they're working on opening up a trail, they're making much more snow on it than they used to, kind of a lay it on deep and then not have to go back to it to fatten in up, rather than lay it on thin to get it open and then come back to it later to augment the base depths type of strategy. There are currently maybe 5 or 6 so snowmaking trails, per my recollection, that haven't seen any gun time yet this season, 3 of which I suspect where supposed to get some gun time the last few days, until it looked like from the excavator and welding equipment on the hill, that one of the water pipes blew out in the area, as the snowmaking equipment was staged in the Ego Alley/Somerset Road/Drop area and was on the stated snowreport list of starting soon late last week.

What Mount Snow suffers from trail count wise, is while the snowmaking system covers around 80% of their total acreage, that isn't 80% of their total trails, and they rely on mother nature for 25 or so of their trails still, and it's still "low tide" when it comes to the natural snow terrain coverage on the mountain now. They need maybe another 8-12" to get the natural snow trail count significantly increasing, as when they have opened some of them, especially the steeper ones, they tend to stay open for a day or 2, before they get skied/ridden off enough for patrol to have to put the rope back up

Agree for the most part on deep snowmaking base. They f'd up on Chute thou, having to go big on that trail 2x while ignoring Timbers next to it. They are behind where they stood last year on snow making trail count / acreage. FYI middle Ex is staged with portable fans as of today but it might be days before they can turn those on.

It's not in their DNA to be transparent on anything. As of today, MSnow is skiing very good - from a mid week perspective. Who thinks they pinching across all resorts due to weather in CO/Utah ?