VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

Only way Vail gets me back full time is if they start running their NH mountains like Peak did. But that ain't happening. Early season aggressive snowmaking terrain expansion is the number one priority for me in our increasingly fickle climate in NH. Gunstock blows them out of the water in that regard.
I do appreciate the value in Epic day passes and some seasons I'll consider a couple to take the kids to some new places. But that might be a bit because there are many Indy places I either haven't gotten them too yet or they were too little to appreciate.

Good to hear that Crotched, Sunapee and Attitash are getting better, but in watching the snow reports, they still don't really go for it early and have open terrain percentages way behind the competition until after MLK. December turns matter more and more to me each year because with youth sports, I'm stuck with Sundays only come April.

I still can't understand why they have all but given up on Attitash/Wildcat. I would think that trying to make them at least revenue neutral would be the goal instead of half-assing it and trying to cut their losses. Vail did drop in that new HSQ at Attitash. I get that Wildcat needs some work, but that should be pretty miniscule for Mighty Vail.

 

[eatskisleep]

I still can't understand why they have all but given up on Attitash/Wildcat. I would think that trying to make them at least revenue neutral would be the goal instead of half-assing it and trying to cut their losses. I did drop in that new HSQ at Attitash. I get that Wildcat needs some work, but that should be pretty miniscule for Mighty Vail.

There’s good money in the MWV. It really doesn’t make sense. Lots of skiers that would happily vacation out west to use their Epic passes too.

 

[raisingarizona]

I still can't understand why they have all but given up on Attitash/Wildcat. I would think that trying to make them at least revenue neutral would be the goal instead of half-assing it and trying to cut their losses. I did drop in that new HSQ at Attitash. I get that Wildcat needs some work, but that should be pretty miniscule for Mighty Vail.

The visitation numbers the last two seasons aren’t real good. I doubt low priority projects are on the table right now.

 

[raisingarizona]

Only way Vail gets me back full time is if they start running their NH mountains like Peak did. But that ain't happening. Early season aggressive snowmaking terrain expansion is the number one priority for me in our increasingly fickle climate in NH. Gunstock blows them out of the water in that regard.
I do appreciate the value in Epic day passes and some seasons I'll consider a couple to take the kids to some new places. But that might be a bit because there are many Indy places I either haven't gotten them too yet or they were too little to appreciate.

Good to hear that Crotched, Sunapee and Attitash are getting better, but in watching the snow reports, they still don't really go for it early and have open terrain percentages way behind the competition until after MLK. December turns matter more and more to me each year because with youth sports, I'm stuck with Sundays only come April.

Has it really improved that much or did it just look that way this past season because of an ideal cold and snowy early winter?

 

[thetrailboss]

The visitation numbers the last two seasons aren’t real good. I doubt low priority projects are on the table right now.

Well, it takes money to make money......

And this has been a good season weatherwise on the east coast. Vail could have made a play to push traffic to the Mount Washington Valley which, historically, has been a real ski destination.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The visitation numbers the last two seasons aren’t real good. I doubt low priority projects are on the table right now.

Even if they were, Vail's performance is a complete disaster, and that's not hyperbole.

Here's FIVE years of MTN versus blind monkeys throwing darts (aka the S&P500). C'est catastrophe.

Now think about the fact Vail's entire lift portfolio and infrastructure's crumbling, with myriad HS quads etc...... from the 1990s likely reaching the end of their lifespan. And the demands from their Wall Street investors that they pinch pennies. The future is not bright. I think we're now about in the 7th inning of the roll-up story. It wouldnt surprise me at all if in the next year or two we see a very public shareholder activist letter making demands.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail Resorts CEO Katz, 20 years on, talks pass products, crowding, acquisitions and growth

Feb. 28, 2026, came and went without much fanfare in a ski industry suffering through one of the worst snowpack seasons in modern memory in Colorado and across the West, but it was the noteworthy 20th anniversary of the day Rob Katz was first named CEO of Vail Resorts.

www.vaildaily.com

So let me put out some key lines from this article.

**Trigger Warning**

“No doubt that I do feel proud about how the company was able to lead this transformation around advanced commitment and the introduction of the Epic Pass and then having other ski resorts, both in North America and around the world, kind of follow along,” Katz said.

When he first took over Vail Resorts, the company that first went public in 1997 owned and operated Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone and Heavenly, California. It’s market capitalization at the time was about $700 million, Katz recalls. It has grown to 42 ski resorts around the world, with a pre-COVID market cap that peaked near $13 billion — coming back to earth in recent years at around $5 billion today.

“In a season like this, (the Epic Pass) obviously provided tremendous stability, not just for the company, not just for other ski resorts, like through the Ikon Pass, the Indy Pass or the Mountain Collective, but it’s also provided a lot of stability for the communities because people buy in advance; they’re much more apt to still come on vacation,” Katz said. “And even if they ski less days, they’re still in the community. So, it really provides a broad base of support for everyone.”

As for all the acquisitions over the years, owning and operating ski areas on four continents provides geographic diversity and therefore better chances of good snow somewhere, but mainly he says they’re all about the season pass product.

“I really saw the acquisitions not to make the company bigger, but to make the pass better for people,” Katz said. “And so that was one of many things we did to have the Epic Pass be successful. But having the company be bigger has been … there are a lot of challenges that come with that.”

And.....wait for it......

Asked if there have been unintended consequences of the multi-resort season pass strategy — more crowding, safety, parking, housing, labor issues — Katz is quick with his answer.

“I don’t think season passes are creating crowding,” Katz said. “And every indication that we have is that actually, if anything, it is smoothing visitation out throughout the season so that actually where our visitation has grown, when we have shown growth, has been in off-peak periods. And as you know, Vail is a great example because, obviously anytime we go over 20,000 visits, we have to report that to the Forest Service and the town.”

“In the end, what I do think the industry and our communities have to get comfortable with is that we’re really saying that there are people who want to ski and we want to tell them no,” Katz said. “Because what I typically hear from people is they don’t want the crowding at their mountain, but they don’t really say, well, where should those people go if they want to ski, if they want to kick people off the mountain?”

“(Reducing skiers), that’s just the wrong premise that we should be looking at this on,” Katz said. “Look, this is never going to be a fast-growing sport no matter what, but we want to keep some level of engagement and enthusiasm. Because if you don’t, I think you can see it go the other way very quickly.”

And Michael Childers, a history professor and observer of the ski industry in Colorado, believes that we will see a political backlash to the industry similar to the one that happened in the 1970's.

 

[deadheadskier]

Has it really improved that much or did it just look that way this past season because of an ideal cold and snowy early winter?

I'm only going off what I read here. People have been less down on Vail

The weather was obviously favorable, but honestly I would have been even more pissed off by the lack of December snowmaking aggressiveness. At least in some prior years they had weather partially to blame for the slow roll out.

Maybe those saying it's been better have reached the "acceptance" stage of grief.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Michael Childers, a history professor and observer of the ski industry in Colorado, believes that we will see a political backlash to the industry similar to the one that happened in the 1970's.

What does that mean, anti- monopoly action?