VAIL SUCKS

[kbroderick]

Snowcat is a >50 year old riblet. Reminds me of that old show pimp my ride when they would put $25K into a car worth $3K. Hard to believe there is not more recent poma or dopp somewhere in the vail network that could be relocated.

So they're replacing what, 80% of the moving parts, and leaving the towers, terminals, and carriers?

That kinda sounds like getting most of the way to a new lift but avoiding any permitting requirements because you're just replacing parts.

 

[eatskisleep]

I assume some of you know Nate Waterhouse from Attitash/Wildcat and the WMV…

Nathan Paul Waterhouse Obituary - Foster's Daily Democrat

Nathan Paul Waterhouse was born on March 31st, 1975 to Janie and Stuart Waterhouse. He was the second of their four children and their only son. He...

www.fosters.com

Sad news. Gathering tomorrow at Ptarmigan’s wish I could make it.

Rest in Peace Nate. I have fond memories growing up with you giving us a hard time in the bike shop. You were one funny and cool dude who will be greatly missed.

 

[2Planker]

Very sad when someone is taken right in the prime of their life...

Knew him pretty well, from ten years together at Wildcat.
Truly a good guy, always helped out patrol whenever he could.

RIP Nate. You will be missed....

 

[BenedictGomez]

2024 inflation rate (via CPI) = 2.9%
Vail's youth clinic increase = 5.1%

They did promise investors on their last earnings call they'd be increasing all prices "in excess of the inflation rate".

 

[doublediamond]

Vail scraps everything they take out. They took out a completely good (after fixes under Peak) CTEC triple from Attitash and a newer completely good CTEC quad at Mt Snow. Both scrapped.

Yes, motor swaps would be in order but the benefit of a good second hand lift for non-primary terrain is off the charts.

Meanwhile Boyne is reinstalling replaced lifts time and time again.

 

[deadheadskier]

Why not try and sell or donate them?

Refurbishing the Tash triple would be ideal for say Whaleback. Or any number of smaller feeder hills.

 

[djd66]

2024 inflation rate (via CPI) = 2.9%
Vail's youth clinic increase = 5.1%

They did promise investors on their last earnings call they'd be increasing all prices "in excess of the inflation rate".

How much is the youth clinic?

 

[machski]

Vail scraps everything they take out. They took out a completely good (after fixes under Peak) CTEC triple from Attitash and a newer completely good CTEC quad at Mt Snow. Both scrapped.

Yes, motor swaps would be in order but the benefit of a good second hand lift for non-primary terrain is off the charts.

Meanwhile Boyne is reinstalling replaced lifts time and time again.

Not always. Hunter reused a lift this past summer in a new alignment after it was upgraded.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail scraps everything they take out. They took out a completely good (after fixes under Peak) CTEC triple from Attitash and a newer completely good CTEC quad at Mt Snow. Both scrapped.

Yes, motor swaps would be in order but the benefit of a good second hand lift for non-primary terrain is off the charts.

Meanwhile Boyne is reinstalling replaced lifts time and time again.

Well.....not every lift is a candidate for being reused. Ask Camden Snowbowl how their "hand me down" chairlift project worked out. Are CTEC lifts generally pretty durable? Yes. But remember that we're talking about 1986 technology for the Summit Triple and a lot of wear and tear on the components.

Are Used Lifts Good Value?

Purchasing a used lift requires careful consideration of a variety of factors well beyond the initial cost of acquisition.

www.saminfo.com

And I am not sure if Boyne is a great example. Yes, they have reinstalled:

Ramcharger (now Big Sky's Shedhorn HSQ)
Swift Current (now Sugarloaf's Bucksaw HSQ)
Jordan Bowl HSQ (Pleasant's Summit HSQ)
Moonlight Basin's Six Shooter (in 2026 it will be at Sugarloaf)
Loon's Kancamagus HSQ (now Seven Brothers HSQ)

But they have also installed nearly the same number of D-Line lifts that cost a pretty coin each at their resorts and not all of the lifts are being reused. So Doppelmayr is doing a ton of business with Boyne and doing the reuse program as a side project and probably a favor to a large customer of some of the most expensive lift projects that are happening right now (Big Sky got a new aerial tram that cost a ton of money). The reuse program is still a limited project considering how many lifts Boyne has in total.

 

[drjeff]

Vail scraps everything they take out. They took out a completely good (after fixes under Peak) CTEC triple from Attitash and a newer completely good CTEC quad at Mt Snow. Both scrapped.

Yes, motor swaps would be in order but the benefit of a good second hand lift for non-primary terrain is off the charts.

Meanwhile Boyne is reinstalling replaced lifts time and time again.

FYI, that "newer completely good CTEC quad at Mount Snow" you refer to (Sunbrook) was 32 years old when they removed in in 2022 for the upgrade to the new Sunbrook HSQ as it was originally installed in 1990

 

[AdironRider]

This takes the cake in a thread chock full of absurd complaints.

The summit triple at Attitash was objectively the worst lift in the entire industry. It also was the main summit lift for decades. It was worn out on top of being terrible to begin with. Bashing Vail for not saving it is grasping at straws for reasons to be offended and that is offensive to straws for getting roped into it.

 

[deadheadskier]

This takes the cake in a thread chock full of absurd complaints.

The summit triple at Attitash was objectively the worst lift in the entire industry. It also was the main summit lift for decades. It was worn out on top of being terrible to begin with. Bashing Vail for not saving it is grasping at straws for reasons to be offended and that is offensive to straws for getting roped into it.

I believe you need to revisit the definition of objective. Maybe look up "hyperbole" in your self study as well.

I don't care too deeply about what Vail does with their equipment, but I would be curious if finding an outlet for some spare parts is ever explored by them or really any major resort owner. In the case of the Attitash triple, the chairs were absolutely fine. I'm guessing the towers were fine too. What's the cost of relocating those items vs buying and shipping new?

A refurbished fixed grip chair that can be serviced for the next 30 years or so is exactly what a place like Whaleback and numerous other struggling mom and pop feeder hills could use. Smuggs proves that fixed grip lifts have an extremely long lifespan. Their two main lifts are both over 60 years old with no scheduled replacements announced . So, it would be great to see the major players step in and help out whenever possible. The industry needs the mom and pop places to survive. Think Stratton donating the Snow Bowl quad to Magic. Yes I know that transition didn't go as smoothly as folks would hope.

 

[urungus]

In the case of the Attitash triple, the chairs were absolutely fine.

Those chairs were auctioned off for charity and not sent to the scrapyard. Sending them to another ski area would have been just a different form of charity, is one really better than the other ?

 

[letitsnow1]

I believe you need to revisit the definition of objective. Maybe look up "hyperbole" in your self study as well.

I don't care too deeply about what Vail does with their equipment, but I would be curious if finding an outlet for some spare parts is ever explored by them or really any major resort owner. In the case of the Attitash triple, the chairs were absolutely fine. I'm guessing the towers were fine too. What's the cost of relocating those items vs buying and shipping new?

A refurbished fixed grip chair that can be serviced for the next 30 years or so is exactly what a place like Whaleback and numerous other struggling mom and pop feeder hills could use. Smuggs proves that fixed grip lifts have an extremely long lifespan. Their two main lifts are both over 60 years old with no scheduled replacements announced . So, it would be great to see the major players step in and help out whenever possible. The industry needs the mom and pop places to survive. Think Stratton donating the Snow Bowl quad to Magic. Yes I know that transition didn't go as smoothly as folks would hope.

Stratton didn't donate the quad to magic, they paid $1million for it

 

[deadheadskier]

Those chairs were auctioned off for charity and not sent to the scrapyard. Sending them to another ski area would have been just a different form of charity, is one really better than the other ?

Well that's good to know

I guess the answer to your question is; it depends. It depends on what the charity is and who you ask.

Personally, I'd rather see used equipment go to businesses in need vs becoming someone's lawn ornament.

 

[2Planker]

Well.....not every lift is a candidate for being reused. Ask Camden Snowbowl how their "hand me down" chairlift project worked out. Are CTEC lifts generally pretty durable? Yes. But remember that we're talking about 1986 technology for the Summit Triple and a lot of wear and tear on the components.

Are Used Lifts Good Value?

Purchasing a used lift requires careful consideration of a variety of factors well beyond the initial cost of acquisition.

www.saminfo.com

And I am not sure if Boyne is a great example. Yes, they have reinstalled:

Ramcharger (now Big Sky's Shedhorn HSQ)
Swift Current (now Sugarloaf's Bucksaw HSQ)
Jordan Bowl HSQ (Pleasant's Summit HSQ)
Moonlight Basin's Six Shooter (in 2026 it will be at Sugarloaf)
Loon's Kancamagus HSQ (now Seven Brothers HSQ)

But they have also installed nearly the same number of D-Line lifts that cost a pretty coin each at their resorts and not all of the lifts are being reused. So Doppelmayr is doing a ton of business with Boyne and doing the reuse program as a side project and probably a favor to a large customer of some of the most expensive lift projects that are happening right now (Big Sky got a new aerial tram that cost a ton of money). The reuse program is still a limited project considering how many lifts Boyne has in total.

The Ole Jordan Quad runs 100X better at Pleasant then it ever did at SR

 

[thetrailboss]

The Ole Jordan Quad runs 100X better at Pleasant then it ever did at SR

Well I am willing to bet that Doppelmayr replaced A LOT of components on it.

 

[2Planker]

Well I am willing to bet that Doppelmayr replaced A LOT of components on it.

You bet, I was actually one of the very first people (SR Patrol) to ride it when it was built initially then, same again 30+ years later when it was reinstalled at Pleasant

 

[AdironRider]

I believe you need to revisit the definition of objective. Maybe look up "hyperbole" in your self study as well.

I don't care too deeply about what Vail does with their equipment, but I would be curious if finding an outlet for some spare parts is ever explored by them or really any major resort owner. In the case of the Attitash triple, the chairs were absolutely fine. I'm guessing the towers were fine too. What's the cost of relocating those items vs buying and shipping new?

A refurbished fixed grip chair that can be serviced for the next 30 years or so is exactly what a place like Whaleback and numerous other struggling mom and pop feeder hills could use. Smuggs proves that fixed grip lifts have an extremely long lifespan. Their two main lifts are both over 60 years old with no scheduled replacements announced . So, it would be great to see the major players step in and help out whenever possible. The industry needs the mom and pop places to survive. Think Stratton donating the Snow Bowl quad to Magic. Yes I know that transition didn't go as smoothly as folks would hope.

You seriously going to argue the summit triple at Attitash wasn't universally loathed?

Replacing Attitash's hated triple chairlift is long overdue, but where will the traffic go? - New England Ski Journal

It looks like Attitash’s snowmaking expansion onto Wilfred’s Gawm this season wasn’t implemented merely for immediate satisfaction.

www.skijournal.com

Just a few quotes from that article:

"finally replace the hated Summit Triple chairlift, which has received complaints from skiers and riders for decades"

"According to Lift Blog, it is more than a 12-minute ride to the top, and that’s only when the frequent mechanical mishaps don’t render the lift useless"

"Pleas to replace the chairlift have gone unto deaf ears"

Or how about Stuart's take on Stormskiing:

Vail Files Preliminary Permitting Documents to Replace the Hated Attitash Triple

A four- or six-place detachable could replace Vail’s most frustrating lift

www.stormskiing.com

"I don't think this will be a well attended retirement party. It is the most hated lift in New Hampshire, and possibly in America. The Summit Triple at Attitash, 1,672 vertical feet of breakdown-prone steel dating to the Reagan administration. Ride time is over 12 minutes. It is the only way to the top of Attitash Peak (adjacent Bear Peak, part of the same ski area, is serviced by a high-speed quad).

For decades, a parallel Hall double ran nearly to the top, terminating 150 vertical feet down the mountain, at the top of the Northwest Passage trail. Former owner Peak Resorts removed that lift in 2018, just before a cascade of mechanical issues stilled the Summit Triple for the majority of the following ski season. While Peak eventually fixed the chair, it continues to suffer breakdowns. The double was never replaced."

Or Unofficial's take which cares more about losing the observation tower than the lift:

Attitash's Infamous Chairlift Closes For Good

New England's most maligned chairlift has spun for the last time. On Sunday, the Summit Triple at Attitash Mountain Resort in New Hampshire had its final

unofficialnetworks.com

I mean hell, even our favorite guy Snowology thought it sucked:

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www.facebook.com

And even local Massachusett's newspapers knew it was terrible, here is the Worcester Telegram saying it was the most despised lift in New England:

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Huge Savings: Subscribe today to enjoy sports, entertainment, life, money, tech, and travel news along with videos, apps, and more.

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But sure DHS, I'm sure someone somewhere liked it. Not everything needs to be saved, and there is no way in hell Whaleback could afford to take on the countries shittiest lift anyways, they can't even afford to fix the one they have currently. At least they aren't morons like Magic throwing millions and years at a lift that was a mistake to begin with.

I understand you hate Vail, but you just look petty for saying every single thing they do sucks. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Welcome to Summer at Alpine Zone Folks!