VAIL SUCKS

[urungus]

Vail Resorts CEO Rob Katz says European ski resorts would benefit from a megapass

Rob Katz thinks European skiers need an Epic Pass, and he may well be the one to bring it to them. But he’s not in a rush to do so. In the Vail Resorts CEO’s...

www.vaildaily.com

Quote from the article: “Our preference is always going to be to own and operate a resort,” Katz told analysts. “…we think we can operate the resorts better”

Ugh

 

[jimmywilson69]

yes that is straight up UGH...

 

[deadheadskier]

So here's a question. If Vail has a bad year even with bringing King Bobby back, does the stock then totally tank and force the sale of some assets?

(Pretty please)

 

[jimmywilson69]

doubtful

I feel the whole value/peak price from 2021 or whatever was WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY overvalued. Its probably living in the range where it should be. I'll let people who have more knowledge of that kind of shit weigh in.

the problem is the people/firms, etc. who bought at the peak. They want their value but I never see it returning to those heights in the near term without "regular" inflation type gains. Again my uneducated take without any real analysis that I probably wouldn't understand.

 

[drjeff]

Think it's finding the balance between grwoing the number of Epic passes they sell by attracting people currently not owning an Epic pass as well as the opportunity to grow their pass sales by attracting new people into the sport. That is where with the portfolio of smaller resorts they own (many of which they acquired when they bought the Peak Resorts portfolio), if they have the ability to pivot (and maybe the sign that they have a different Vail property designation going forward that they might) towards a marketing way to try and grow new participants into the sport via these feeder areas. Then hoping that may get those new participants into a Epic pass soon thereafter.

Maybe Rob Katz this time around will get that trying the 1 size fits all model for how they envisioned running all of their resorts, wasn't the best practice, and make some actual pivots towards running the various resorts in more of a tiered, best fit for that resort, type situation. The potential is there, the question is will there be enough fortitude to make the pivot towards a different type operations model for different resorts?

 

[jimmywilson69]

Your optimism is impressive.

If they can come to terms with any of that, including structuring pass products for the local resorts in a manner that attracts people to the sport, then I'd be all for that.

The problem is they think they already offer a value driven product, but have completely lost sight of how expensive it is for a family of 4 to try skiing for the first time. And no, having to think about buying "flexible" day passes in the April prior to the resort opening for the winter is not a valid approach...

 

[thetrailboss]

Quote from the article: “Our preference is always going to be to own and operate a resort,” Katz told analysts. “…we think we can operate the resorts better”

Ugh

"THE REPORTER GOT IT WRONG! AND I HAVE FIXED IT!"

“Our preference is always going to be to DOMINATE a resort,” Katz told analysts. “…we KNOW THAT we can operate the resorts better”

 

[thetrailboss]

The problem is they think they already offer a value driven product, but have completely lost sight of how expensive it is for a family of 4 to try skiing for the first time. And no, having to think about buying "flexible" day passes in the April prior to the resort opening for the winter is not a valid approach...

I have to agree. It seems that both IKON and EPIC are more focused on squeezing out the most $$$ from the existing skier and rider market and essentially giving up on on newcomers joining the sport. Perhaps it is to appease short term investors. Perhaps it is a tacit acknowledgment that skiing and riding as we know it is not sustainable and will likely not exist due to climate change. Whatever it is, almost all of these resorts (owned and partnered) have ridiculously expensive learn to ski and ride packages. A two-hour instruction class, with lunch, lift ticket, and rental equipment, as well as child care for a new 3-4 year old skier at Snowbird is $350.00.

 

[Hastur]

if you were budget conscious, why in the world would you bring your 4 yo to snowbird to learn how to ski?

are there no smaller family style places out there?

 

[thetrailboss]

if you were budget conscious, why in the world would you bring your 4 yo to snowbird to learn how to ski?

are there no smaller family style places out there?

If you were budget conscious, why would you want to learn to ski or ride?

 

[AdironRider]

Get outta here. You could go to Sundance and do the same program for like 1/3 the cost.

Skiing is not soccer, and even then, you clearly haven't priced out a kids soccer program recently.......

 

[drjeff]

if you were budget conscious, why in the world would you bring your 4 yo to snowbird to learn how to ski?

are there no smaller family style places out there?

Often because Mom and or Dad (mostly Dad) wants to be able to ski some terrain while little Johnny or Sally learns to ski on the bunny hill tends to be wheat I have experienced, read, and heard over the years...

If the parents are only skiing a limited number of days a year, and bringing their kid(s) to a bigger (often more $$ area) to learn, chances are it's more about the parent(s) getting their laps in that their kid(s) experience that day, which certainly could be happening at a smaller (often way less $$) ski area

 

[2Planker]

Many kids these days don't want to be outside skiing all day...
Been that way for years.
They'd rather play video games., Or surf social media sites.
Sad. very sad indeed.

 

[raisingarizona]

If you were budget conscious, why would you want to learn to ski or ride?

I'm mostly done now. I'll go have some days with my daughter somewhere cool but I'm not really skiing anymore. It's too much of an expensive hassle for me.

That and my feet hate ski boots these days.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Your optimism is impressive.

Yeah, this company isn't doing s**t unless it brings in more revenue, or improves its margins. Everything about the "skier experience" is mere happy talk. They literally openly talk about promising to raise all their prices in excess of inflation on investor calls (which one presumes they think very few EPIC pass holders listen to). If Vail's skier numbers continue to fall, they'll just increase prices further on their remaining customers. Parking will continue to go up in price. Maybe more "premium parking" options. My guess is Vail institutes a "fast pass" in the next few years as well. Whatever they can think of to bring in ancillary revenue to keep the stock afloat.

As I said on here many years ago, Vail is just going to continue to get worse and worse until something breaks. That is the nature and life cycle of pretty much every roll-up company I've seen in any industry.

 

[trackbiker]

Think it's finding the balance between grwoing the number of Epic passes they sell by attracting people currently not owning an Epic pass as well as the opportunity to grow their pass sales by attracting new people into the sport. That is where with the portfolio of smaller resorts they own (many of which they acquired when they bought the Peak Resorts portfolio), if they have the ability to pivot (and maybe the sign that they have a different Vail property designation going forward that they might) towards a marketing way to try and grow new participants into the sport via these feeder areas. Then hoping that may get those new participants into a Epic pass soon thereafter.

They're doing the exact opposite now with their ridiculous day ticket prices. No one is going buy a season pass before they've even tried skiing. They've also driven away the club ( schools, boy/girl scouts, etc.) business where a kid might try skiing for the first time. I've literally seen people look at the cost of lift tickets and rentals and decide to go tubing or ice skating instead of trying skiing.

 

[jimmywilson69]

yep! Unfortunately like BG mentioned above, there is little to no chance they go "Lets offer a real cheap first timer package to draw people in"

 

[drjeff]

yep! Unfortunately like BG mentioned above, there is little to no chance they go "Lets offer a real cheap first timer package to draw people in"

You mean that in the numerous times Rob K has said that one of Vail's goals to the grow the sport via getting groups of folks into the sport that typically haven't been in the past (queue up the images as he's saying this of inner city folks of a diverse background), is just a smoke and mirrors thing?

Frankly I am suprised that none of the big mega passes have partnered up with the Big Snow/Snow operating folks who have put in place a plan, that thye ARE taking to many small feeder hills to really make an attempt to get more people into the sport, at an afforadable price point. Joe Hession and his crew have a strong vision for growing the sport and seem to be backing up their talk

 

[thetrailboss]

They're doing the exact opposite now with their ridiculous day ticket prices. No one is going buy a season pass before they've even tried skiing. They've also driven away the club ( schools, boy/girl scouts, etc.) business where a kid might try skiing for the first time. I've literally seen people look at the cost of lift tickets and rentals and decide to go tubing or ice skating instead of trying skiing.

I can only reason that they’re giving up on the sport surviving long term (as I said above).

 

[jimmywilson69]

Frankly I am suprised that none of the big mega passes have partner with the Big Snow/Snow operating folks who have put in place a plan, that thye ARE taking to many small feeder hills to really make an attempt to get more people into the sport, at an afforadable price point. Joe Hession and his crew have a strong vision for growing the sport and seem to be backing up their talk

This is a great idea. If Peaks hadn't ever bought the snowtime resorts (Southcentral PA) they'd have been an excellent candidate for something like this.

Butt Hey! Good Ole' Robby Boy is back in the CEO seat so I'm sure things we'll be JUST FINE...