Vail's Big Northeast Improvements- 2022-2023

[ss20]

I spoke to some people who know what they are talking about with these lifts - it seems the issue with the North Face lifts is that because the base at North Face has no way to ski out of it (you have to take a lift to get out of there) there is some state/insurance/something requirement that there has to be 2 lifts out of there so the area can still be evacuated if one lift goes down.

I always figured that some day they would tear both of those old lifts out and install a HSQ. But I think it's more complicated than that. If they do a HSQ at North Face they would probably have to do something like the Beartrap lift - a short, lightly used lift that can take you up and out of that area and back to the main mountain. Probably something that dumps you out near where the Canyon lift ends. Or it may make more sense to just keep one of the two old North Face lifts running and install a HSQ. But those lifts are old and I think they are struggling with figuring this out as "just keep one of the old lifts going" isn't necessarily sustainable. So any lift upgrades at North Face will almost definitely have to be 2 new lifts, not just one.

I've never heard of that regulation. The base of Okemo's South Face was a dead-end with one lift out for decades (still is the only way out of that side of the hill). Middlebury's backside also requires a lift ride out. Perhaps these areas are exempt because there's road access nearby? Not calling you a liar...just thinking out loud.

The Outpost Triple is the definition of a "Frankenlift" but many of its components are newer than Challenger. Challenger has also been their "daily driver" for a lonnng time with Outpost running backup as needed, so I'm sure Outpost has fewer hours on it. I've heard, from the Peak's era, that they want to change where a Challenger replacement lift would unload so they'd have more room to expand the Summit Lodge or build a new one. That'd require cutting down trees using a slightly modified lift line or using the Outpost lift line when a HSQ comes.

 

[ss20]

Also I knew this was never going to happen, but a Sundance base-to-summit lift would be so cool and really increase the viability of people starting their day at Sundance. That'd be a 8,000'+ long monster of a lift.

In my fantasy world. that happens, Canyon is a six pack, Sunbrook/North Face HSQ's. Then you'd have enough capacity on the Main Face and the other sides to be able to remove the Grand Summit. Of course, this was all based on my skiing there pre-Vail.

 

[p_levert]

Finally, some investment in their eastern resorts, its too bad there is no replacement for the Attitash Summit Triple, because that lift has become sort of the poster child for Vails neglect. This year I am going to try to ski Hackett‘s Highway under the Stowe Mountain triple for first time, just in case they eff it up while installing new lift, like what happened at Gore recently.

Hackett's Highway skis easier than it looks. It's just a really fun run, so go for it.

I don't ski much at Stowe these days, but I think the replacement of the triple is a bad move. I think all ski areas should keep a mix of high speed and fixed grip lifts. The fixed grip lifts are great on cold, windy days and sometimes a slow ride up is just what you need to recuperate. I was also disappointed to see the replacement of the Green Ridge triple at Okemo with a HSQ. But, again, I mostly ski the Ikon resorts, so not greatly impacted.

 

[deadheadskier]

I can't figure out how they plan to lower the bottom terminal of the mountain triple to the small parking area beside the lodge. I guess they will relocate the tree-top adventure park and the power lines. Sucks to also see that parking lot disappear. The life alignment also puts the bottom terminal in the woods off the parking area, pretty close to the creek. Seems like a lot of additional work, to just remove the climb up the hill. The climb to the triple is not nearly as bad as the climb to the quad or using the stairs.

Maybe they move the tree top park over to Spruce or near the Gondola base where a higher concentration of their summer activities are?

I agree it's not as bad to get to the triple as the quad, but it's still a worse slog to a lift than most ski areas have from a base lodge in the East. They probably receive quite a bit of negative feedback on guest service surveys regarding the Mansfield layout.

 

[deadheadskier]

Damn, speaking of Stowe's Zipline.

Awful

Stowe Mountain Resort employee dies in zip line crash

A Stowe Mountain Resort employee died last week while riding on the resort’s zip line as part of his job.

www.vtcng.com

 

[Smellytele]

I've never heard of that regulation. The base of Okemo's South Face was a dead-end with one lift out for decades (still is the only way out of that side of the hill). Middlebury's backside also requires a lift ride out. Perhaps these areas are exempt because there's road access nearby? Not calling you a liar...just thinking out loud.

The Outpost Triple is the definition of a "Frankenlift" but many of its components are newer than Challenger. Challenger has also been their "daily driver" for a lonnng time with Outpost running backup as needed, so I'm sure Outpost has fewer hours on it. I've heard, from the Peak's era, that they want to change where a Challenger replacement lift would unload so they'd have more room to expand the Summit Lodge or build a new one. That'd require cutting down trees using a slightly modified lift line or using the Outpost lift line when a HSQ comes.

Middlebury’s “Backside” is right next to the road so you can technically get out if the lift dies.

 

[Zand]

When I was in high school and a total moron we used to jump off the Stowe triple above Hacketts Highway where it gets pretty low to the ground. Used to lap it over and over and jump every time.

Guess that practice will probably no longer be viable

 

[Edd]

Damn, speaking of Stowe's Zipline.

Awful

Stowe Mountain Resort employee dies in zip line crash

A Stowe Mountain Resort employee died last week while riding on the resort’s zip line as part of his job.

www.vtcng.com

Weird that stuff is usually angled so that you’re going slow when you approach a platform.

 

[slatham]

Re: Stowe Triple to 6 pack. They say the base terminal will be "lower". Thats a relative term and doesn't mean to the parking lot. They may just move from uphill of Tyro to downhill of Tyro, and still uphill of tree course and power lines. Total speculation.

I am in full agreement that the triple needed replacement. Once can argue 4 vs 6, but it needs to be replaced with a HS lift to take load off of the Front 4 HSQ. So many people ride the HSQ to access intermediate terrain simply because they will not ride an old, fixed grip "anything".

So sorry to hear of the zip line accident. Tragic. RIP.

 

[Cobbold]

tragic News about the Stowe employee, thoughts and prayers go out to him and his family.

what does the attitash crowd think of the changes at attitash?

 

[dblskifanatic]

Vail will suck until they replace the attitash triple.

Attitash​

Let me stop you right there, because I know what you’re thinking. It’s what everyone is thinking: why not replace the Summit Triple? It’s old. It’s unreliable. You can watch Dances With Wolves from beginning to end on the ride to the top. Why not replace it with… something?

First: it serves a complicated piece of terrain. The summit is high and tight, with just three trails branching off the terminal. The basic rule for lift-to-trail ratio is one seat for each trail. Second, Peak made substantial repairs in 2019 after a multi-month shutdown cut off the summit for a large portion of the season:

Attitash Mountain @AttitashResort
Yup, the summit triple is fixed and ready for winter. #attitash #summitaccess #ontowinter
October 3rd 2019
2 Retweets22 Likes
For now, Vail will replace the 48-year-old East and West Double Doubles with a fixed-grip quad. This means something, Attitash skiers. It means Vail is committed to the mountain long-term.

They will get to the Summit Triple. There are options aside from replacing the full top-to-bottom lift. How about putting a high-speed six in place of the Flying Yankee quad, and a new triple or fixed-grip quad running from mid-mountain to the summit? Or leave Flying Yankee in place and split the summit lift with a pair of quads, a high-speed at the bottom and a fixed-grip up top?

They will figure out something great. In the meantime, they could win over a few locals by letting them skin to the top when the triple does inevitably break down again.

 

[thebigo]

Word is attitash repaired the snowmaking on wilfreds this summer. I suspect they want to see how the mountain flows with a groomed wilfreds before committing to a summit replacement. The omission of sunapee is more shocking than the attitash triple. Sunapee needs a six on the main face and the terrain expansion. Wildcat and crotched do not need lifts, wildcat needs to be able to blow top to bottom, crotched needs a green trail off the summit.

Other factor to consider at attitash, they own the land where the new quad will be installed, summit triple is on forest service land.

 

[Edd]

Word is attitash repaired the snowmaking on wilfreds this summer.

That’s great news, they should make a point to blast the f*** out of that. I’d agree it’s important to keep that trail open if capacity to the summit is increased.

 

[snoseek]

It is nice to see them spend something back east.

I'm hoping they get a better handle on day to day operations this year. We will see

 

[Newpylong]

I think a HSQ is a better fit to replace Tumbleweed and Sundance triples. Even with snowmaking, that is going to be hard to find the downhill capacity to handle a HS6. If there is, should there be though? Long John/Deer Run is already Vermont's version of Belt Parkway especially at the lift terminus. Maybe will be fine with wider chair spacing. Expect to see snowmaking installed on Shoot Out, Hop, High Traverse and Shooting Star along with the lift. I guess that seals the fate of Peak's Master Plan of decommissioning the Sundance base area, which was going to be a bad move anyway.

No need for any changes to the North Face really. Having both of those redundant lifts works well and the rides are relatively short.

I would expect to see the Sunbrook HSQ operate daily and the Beartrap only weekends. They lose 1 trail mid-week, oh well.

Can't comment on Stowe, only been a few times

As for Attitash, that is going to be a really hard sell to their customers, who have waited literally a decade+ to get rid of that Triple. The Lift department (specifically mechanical) is going to like that move more than anyone else. I will ask around about Wilfred's but all of my contacts there left when Vail came in. The only reason the snowmaking didn't work there was because an (inexperienced) Boyd son froze the line, threw a hissy fit, so they removed the feed from the valve station to the trail. It was all old victaulic and needed to be replaced.

 

[Mum skier]

Yeah, what happened to the planned large Sunapee expansion. I know that was not a one year plan but was hoping to see some planning and roll out starting. That has to be their most popular and (I assume) financially successful NH mountain. And also one with an fairly obvious expansion option. Disappointed to not see any start there.

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe the thought process is if they don't expand Sunapee more people will go to their larger resorts in VT and spend the night.

That kind of terrain expansion at Sunapee will really make the place ski like a large ski area vs mid sized. At that point, what's the incentive to drive an hour further from Boston to Snow or Okemo for essentially the same terrain.

Hope it does happen though.

 

[thebigo]

I would have to look but silverlode may fit the sunapee profile.

Edit:

Sunapee: 1405 / 6057
Silverlode: 1322 / 5370

Not a perfect fit, someone more knowledgeable than me may know if it would work.

One of the hsdq being removed may fit the attitash profile, I am too lazy to look.

 

[drjeff]

I would have to look but silverlode may fit the sunapee profile.

Edit:

Sunapee: 1405 / 6057
Silverlode: 1322 / 5370

Not a perfect fit, someone more knowledgeable than me may know if it would work.

One of the hsdq being removed may fit the attitash profile, I am too lazy to look.

That silverlode lift has lots of hours on it though...

 

[machski]

Yeah, what happened to the planned large Sunapee expansion. I know that was not a one year plan but was hoping to see some planning and roll out starting. That has to be their most popular and (I assume) financially successful NH mountain. And also one with an fairly obvious expansion option. Disappointed to not see any start there.

Remember with Sunapee, they don't own the land, it is leased from NH parks. So when ot comes to imprvements at Sunapee, doubt Vail can snap their fingers and make things happen on their timeline exclusively.