Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

[cdskier]

Elementary school teachers making $47,000 ≠ college professors making $187,000.

This is getting way off subject in a conflatey' way.

I agree...however your average college professor still isn't making $187K (especially in VT).


VSC schools (which was the original topic of this thread) have even lower averages for each of these ranks than the VT overall averages.

This chart also doesn't include adjunct professors since they're paid per course not paid on a salary basis. My own college seems to have moved away from adjuncts towards using "Lecturers" instead since I graduated (at least in the department I was part of).

Additionally, most teaching faculty at a college are not full "professors". In most colleges it is very difficult to become a full professor and takes years. There are "professors" that I had 20 years ago at my school that are still only "Associate professors" and not full professors. A "Professor" is the highest academic rank at a college. When talking about salary data, it isn't a generic term.

And before you question the source of my data...

Faculty and staff pay data come from the U.S. Department of Education’s Integrated Postsecondary Data System (Ipeds), comprising degree-granting colleges that participate in Title IV funding. The faculty data refer to full-time, nonmedical, instructional staff (either “instructional only” or “instructional combined with research and/or public service”) as of November 1 of the corresponding academic year.

 

[VTKilarney]

The top professor in the meteorological program made $67,600 in 2017.

I had heard rumors that the program has gone downhill. Based on this list of faculty, I would have a hard time arguing against that. Nothing against any of them personally, it’s just that it shows that the school is not really invested in the program.
http://atmos.northernvermont.edu/about-us/faculty-staff/

 

[deadheadskier]

In 2002 I was hired as an adjunct professor to teach a Resort Marketing and Sales course at Davis and Elkins College in West Virginia.

I was paid $1500 for the semester plus mileage. Lol

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[cdskier]

The top professor in the meteorological program made $67,600 in 2017.

I had heard rumors that the program has gone downhill. Based on this list of faculty, I would have a hard time arguing against that. Nothing against any of them personally, it’s just that it shows that the school is not really invested in the program.
http://atmos.northernvermont.edu/about-us/faculty-staff/

The average professor salary was just under $70K for NVU in the 2018-2019 academic year. So $67,600 for 2017 seems certainly possible. At the moment, the "top" professor in the program is also the only "professor". So not hard to see how they would be pretty in line with the average especially if that type of scenario is common across numerous programs in the school.

 

[Zand]

Elementary school teachers making $47,000 ≠ college professors making $187,000.

This is getting way off subject in a conflatey' way.

No professor in the VSC makes close to that. The longest tenured teachers in my hometown school district make more than the longest tenured professors in the VSC.

This isnt a professor salary problem. It's an overinflated administration with overinflated administrative salaries problem.

 

[thetrailboss]

No professor in the VSC makes close to that. The longest tenured teachers in my hometown school district make more than the longest tenured professors in the VSC.

This isnt a professor salary problem. It's an overinflated administration with overinflated administrative salaries problem.

Top heavy
No direction or leadership
Not enough state funding for decades
Demographic changes fueled in part by 20-30 years of bad public policy decisions at the State level
Single-party rule with no checks and balances

Those are SOME of the reasons for how we got here.

 

[BenedictGomez]

No professor in the VSC makes close to that. This isnt a professor salary problem. It's an overinflated administration with overinflated administrative salaries problem.

My first comment in this thread noted my comments were irrespective of these two colleges.

Were I to focus on just these 2 colleges, I'd assume a large part of the problem is simply one of demand. And this type of school with an acceptance rate of 95% (2016) is likely part of the problem I'm speaking of, not part of the solution. I doubt the acceptance rate was 95% in 1970. While I can sympathize it's sad for old alums to see schools die off, and it's negative for various local economies, I believe it's necessary & ultimately a positive thing for America's higher education. We need fewer schools & more high quality schools, not more schools fueling the destructive, "everyone must go to college" falsehood.

 

[dblskifanatic]

In 2002 I was hired as an adjunct professor to teach a Resort Marketing and Sales course at Davis and Elkins College in West Virginia.

I was paid $1500 for the semester plus mileage. Lol

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I worked in CA as an Adjunct Professor and got paid $3000 per class per quarter then moved to NE and tried doing the same and got paid $1500 per semester - taught one class then gave it up - was not worth it.


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[JoeB-Z]

Just a crazy contrast.

I was a teaching assistant for two sections of Engineering Communications my last semester at University of Michigan Law School in 2001. Get this- I got my tuition, a $3000 stipend and decent health insurance- About $28K in compensation for 100 hours of pleasant work over the semester. Why? Graduate Student Union

 

[Domeskier]

Professor salaries at the higher end of the pay scale are often funded through endowed chairs and should have no effect on tuition. If the Al Roker Professor of Meteorology is earning $500,000 per year, chances are that most of the money is coming from the endowment. Perhaps deep-pocketed donors should be earmarking their donations for tuition reduction and scholarships, but that is not nearly as cool as getting your name on a building or having your name associated with some pop physicist whom you watch on PBS.

 

[billo]

Spoiler alert. This has nothing to do with Northeast skiing.

Also, all colleges and universities are utterly f$&@ed. Like many will just be gone. New enrollment is destroyed, current students are taking a year off. Harvard has $40b in endowmnet funds and thought taking a trivial amount of federal disaster loans was a good idea....just let them burn.

 

[thetrailboss]

Key point from the hearing today: The Chancellor conceded that he needs the same amount of money to keep the campuses open another year as he would if he goes ahead and closes immediately. He needs $25 million.

So seems like a no-brainer: get $25 million and KEEP them open. Restructure and move ahead.

 

[VTKilarney]

Key point from the hearing today: The Chancellor conceded that he needs the same amount of money to keep the campuses open another year as he would if he goes ahead and closes immediately. He needs $25 million.

So seems like a no-brainer: get $25 million and KEEP them open. Restructure and move ahead.

The schools are losing money. Your math is off.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Harvard has $40b in endowmnet funds and thought taking a trivial amount of federal disaster loans was a good idea....just let them burn.

I wanted to puke when I heard Harvard's getting COVID-19 funds. Literally the largest endowment on Planet Earth.

 

[deadheadskier]

The high profile Harvard grads really should be endlessly shaming the school. My understanding is Harvard could operate in perpetuity off their endowment without charging a dime for tuition.

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[dblskifanatic]

So what the point of amassing so much money? $40B? I would be curious how much COVID19 funding they get


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[deadheadskier]

Almost $9M

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/4/15/harvard-coronavirus-cares-act/



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[thetrailboss]

The schools are losing money. Your math is off.

As I said, it’s not my math.

If you listened, this was Spaulding’s own admission. $25 million needed now be it close the schools now or keep them open a year. It was in the first hour or so of public comment. So if it’s wrong, that’s on him.

The point is he needs $25 mill regardless of whether they close now or after 20-21. So might as well try to either do a slow close or a careful restructure with more input.


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[VTKilarney]

Okay, let me explain it to you.

For your argument to make fiscal sense, after the upcoming academic year the colleges must not lose any money ever again. Since not a single person has come remotely close to cracking that code, it's not at all probable. And the demographics are forecasted to get much worse, especially in New England.

If the goal is to stem the bleeding, it makes a LOT of sense to close the colleges now even if it would cost the same amount of money to keep the colleges open for just one more year.

Think of it this way: I steal $100 from your checking account every month. I offer you a deal. You can pay a $100 ransom and I will never take another nickel from your checking account. If you don't pay me the ransom, I will keep taking the $100 every month. According to you, you shouldn't pay the ransom because next month you would have lost $100 anyway.

As I have said earlier, I am all for finding a way to keep these colleges open. But you need a better argument than the one you just made.

 

[uphillklimber]

If the shutdown costs are 25 million, pay it and be done. To spend another 25 million this year, then pay the 25 million shutdown costs next year, you are simply kicking the can down the road. It's a money loser, time to close it down.