Vermont Likely to Close 3 State Colleges

[dblskifanatic]

Funny tuition has skyrocketed yet starting salaries have not proportionally


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[Domeskier]

Funny tuition has skyrocketed yet starting salaries have not proportionally

As others have mentioned, tuition has skyrocketed in large part because students have easy access to loans and administrators are exploiting that. A humanities degree from most colleges and universities is clearly not worth $200,000, but as long as we continue to encourage everyone to go to college and let them borrow whatever they need to do so, we won't see tuition going down until the student loan bubble bursts.

 

[JoeB-Z]

"until the student loan bubble bursts." I think it has burst but by and large the new suckers keep showing up. Look at the endless articles from graduates (or dropouts) in hopeless loan hell.

NVU not slimming down to one school was a planning disaster.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Harvard giving the money back.

Is that right? I hadnt seen that.

This has been a great recent development whereby the American public is "shaming" these entities which are taking advantage of COVID-19 crisis funds even though they obviously don't really need it. Shake Shack returned their money this week as well.

 

[gladerider]

Funny tuition has skyrocketed yet starting salaries have not proportionally


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schools have financial problems and right away you point to salaries and tuitions. yes they certainly big factors but to get a holistic picture, you need to also look at the state funding over the same period as well as enrollment size.

the problems at the US colleges and University have been known for a while now. the problem is more complex than meets the eye.

most schools that have weathered over the years are two categories: 1) well known brand names like Harvard and Darthmouth - in essence these schools are unlikely to have any enrollment issues; and, 2) schools that have excellent symbiosis with businesses.

i am a flatlander but my understanding is that Vermont is a second worst state to start a business. you cannot expect to have a thriving state school system while making it very difficult for businesses to survive. a quick google gives me this.
https://vermontbiz.com/news/2019/august/01/study-vermont-poor-place-start-business


another interesting read
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-06/how-universities-make-cities-great

 

[BenedictGomez]

As others have mentioned, tuition has skyrocketed in large part because students have easy access to loans and administrators are exploiting that. A humanities degree from most colleges and universities is clearly not worth $200,000, but as long as we continue to encourage everyone to go to college and let them borrow whatever they need to do so, we won't see tuition going down until the student loan bubble bursts.

You're assuming it's "allowed" to burst.

But yes, few understand how serious a situation this is; the combined debt is almost incomprehensible.

 

[Domeskier]

You're assuming it's "allowed" to burst.

True...

 

[cdskier]

Is that right? I hadnt seen that.

This has been a great recent development whereby the American public is "shaming" these entities which are taking advantage of COVID-19 crisis funds even though they obviously don't really need it. Shake Shack returned their money this week as well.

They're not really "giving it back", they're simply allocating it entirely to student financial aid:
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/4/21/harvard-stimulus-funds-financial-aid/

To be fair, I don't know if they even can "give it back" as unlike the small business loans (i.e. the Shake Shack scenario), it doesn't seem colleges had to apply for the money and were simply given it automatically based on a set formula. Kind of ironic that there are senators, etc blasting Harvard on twitter when it was actually the wording in the very bill that they voted for that created the problem in the first place. Just goes to show how many people don't read the details of the bills they pass.

 

[VTKilarney]

Is that right? I hadnt seen that.

This has been a great recent development whereby the American public is "shaming" these entities which are taking advantage of COVID-19 crisis funds even though they obviously don't really need it. Shake Shack returned their money this week as well.

I have a theory that something else is going on with Shake Shack. There is a provision that was slipped into the Paycheck Protection Act that requires businesses that take funds to remain neutral in any union organizing effort. My bet is that Shake Shack learned about this provision and returned the money in a nanosecond.

 

[dblskifanatic]

You're assuming it's "allowed" to burst.

But yes, few understand how serious a situation this is; the combined debt is almost incomprehensible.

Well I think there was a politician that wanted to erase student loan debt.


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[BenedictGomez]

Kind of ironic that there are senators, etc blasting Harvard on twitter when it was actually the wording in the very bill that they voted for that created the problem in the first place. Just goes to show how many people don't read the details of the bills they pass.

No, they did read the bill, they did know, and they did not have a choice. It was either agree to the bill with these various ridiculous "goodies" included, or let thousands of Americans starve. They chose the lesser of two evils.

 

[mbedle]

I have a theory that something else is going on with Shake Shack. There is a provision that was slipped into the Paycheck Protection Act that requires businesses that take funds to remain neutral in any union organizing effort. My bet is that Shake Shack learned about this provision and returned the money in a nanosecond.

Actually, that only applies to mid-size business loans, which is different than the the PPP loans. The mid-size business loan program is not forgivable (like the PPP loan) and the stay neutral only applies during the terms of the loan.

 

[mbedle]

There were strings attached. But yet, the Kennedy center for the arts was allowed to lay off their staff after getting their money. It's always about the money.

If any small or non-profit business obtains a PPP loan and uses less than 75% of the loan to pay employee salaries, health insurance, employee costs, the loan will not be forgivable. As such, the business would have to pay back the loan with interest. I am not sure if the payback amount is prorated based on the percentage that was used to maintain employees on the books.

 

[skiur]

Well I think there was a politician that wanted to erase student loan debt.


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That will prepare these kids for the real world!

 

[JimG.]

Well I think there was a politician that wanted to erase student loan debt.


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Erase? No such thing.

Someone else will pay for it.

 

[VTKilarney]

Actually, that only applies to mid-size business loans, which is different than the the PPP loans. The mid-size business loan program is not forgivable (like the PPP loan) and the stay neutral only applies during the terms of the loan.

What makes you think that their loan was for a small business? I don’t see franchisees giving the money back. It’s corporate that is.

 

[VTKilarney]

If any small or non-profit business obtains a PPP loan and uses less than 75% of the loan to pay employee salaries, health insurance, employee costs, the loan will not be forgivable. As such, the business would have to pay back the loan with interest. I am not sure if the payback amount is prorated based on the percentage that was used to maintain employees on the books.

Close, but not quite true. The amount of the loan that is forgiven is reduced depending on how close to the 75% you get. There is also a FTE requirement.

 

[BenedictGomez]

RE: the Harvard money; Trump just said in today's briefing he's going to make Harvard give the COVID19 relief cash back.

 

[VTKilarney]

RE: the Harvard money; Trump just said in today's briefing he's going to make Harvard give the COVID19 relief cash back.

That will put the Democrats in a pickle since they can’t possibly go on record agreeing with Trump.

 

[JoeB-Z]

Why not have a politician submit a bill to erase mortgages???? Someone, somewhere has footed the bill for all these loans, and people signed their name to them agreeing to pay them back according to the terms. I've always had to pay back loans, even if they were predatory. Legally required. Keep it that way.

Agree. After all, they are claiming to be college material (a bygone term) and SMART. Please- I understood the implications of every loan. Then again, I was an engineering student and studied 35 hours a week plus classes to make sure it worked out. And I graduated in a recession.

By the way, my old engineering professor, a now 92 year ex-Iraqi Jew who clawed himself up from nothing, said today's students couldn't begin to hack what we did in the 1980s. His name is Dr. Latif Jiji. The whiners should look him up. And I knew another guy who slept in an unheated warehouse and walked the 5 miles to City College from the Bronx because he couldn't afford the subway. He studied in the library and showered in the gym. He got that engineering degree and on from there. No complaints from Daniel Plaza.