WCAX: 45 Lost Skiers and Riders in the Last Two Weeks Concern Vermont Officials

[Mpdsnowman]

Wheres Spock when we need em lol.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"..

I think a surcharge in a ticket would rank imo as one of the biggest marketing blunders of all time..Lol Probably right up there with "New Coke" lol

 

[MadMadWorld]

Wheres Spock when we need em lol.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"..

I think a surcharge in a ticket would rank imo as one of the biggest marketing blunders of all time..Lol Probably right up there with "New Coke" lol

What about clear Pepsi?

 

[BenedictGomez]

I think a surcharge in a ticket would rank imo as one of the biggest marketing blunders of all time..Lol Probably right up there with "New Coke" lol

It would be done by the government, not the resort. And as with any other tax, the company would then pass the tax onto their customers either with higher ticket prices or higher ancillary costs (food and beverage prices increase, start charging $1 for parking, etc...).

What about clear Pepsi?

I wish they'd bring that back.

It's the same dang thing except it doesn't have the artificial color that does nothing for flavor, and that stains your teeth.

 

[SnowRock]

No can do kemosabe. Why should the ticket price go up at K-ton for everyone? Marketing suicide for K-ton also.

Who's Inventing a solution to a problem that hasn't already been invented? Got NH, Europe? The solution has already been "invented", needs local implementation.

statistical noise can have local consequences.

Believe me.. I was not advocating a surcharge system but I don't think you take a 30 day period and change everything because of events from that period of time.

Do you enact a far reaching statewide solution to a localized problem? Or do you take a step back to evaluate the problem... then determine what is needed? Also this isn't le grave or cham we are talking about. What is necessary for one area may not be needed/work in another.. that's all I'm saying.

 

[Mpdsnowman]

Yup lol that one too...

Heres my thought....

If it cost me (I am out of state) to ride Killington for the standard price of $80.00 mid week plus lets say a $25.00 surcharge for conceivable BC rescue.

I could just drive North to Jay Peak and pay $50 dollars and most likely have access to an indoor water park.

The consumer ultimately decides and surcharges nowadays are fully involved in their decisions....

Now if the govt steps in and made it state wide then it would be more fair. At that point competition would be equal on that level.

 

[SnowRock]

If it cost me (I am out of state) to ride Killington for the standard price of $80.00 mid week plus lets say a $25.00 surcharge for conceivable BC rescue.

By no means am I suggesting this is a solution.. but it would be more like 25 CENTS which I imagine would still cover exponentially what is spent on SAR in Vermont each year.

 

[Scruffy]

Believe me.. I was not advocating a surcharge system but I don't think you take a 30 day period and change everything because of events from that period of time.

Do you enact a far reaching statewide solution to a localized problem? Or do you take a step back to evaluate the problem... then determine what is needed? Also this isn't le grave or cham we are talking about. What is necessary for one area may not be needed/work in another.. that's all I'm saying.

30 day period this year; we've been seeing an increasing frequency every year ( no, I do not have the stats ).

If you've been reading, I'm not advocating a State wide law; local laws and education are just fine.

 

[AdironRider]

So are you just making random assed guesses based on your gut?

This is like avi's, big writeup in the NYT recently, which is making everyone think they are becoming a huge problem, when in reality avi deaths are pretty constant from year to year.

So again, one 30 day period does not a trend make.

 

[Mpdsnowman]

By no means am I suggesting this is a solution.. but it would be more like 25 CENTS which I imagine would still cover exponentially what is spent on SAR in Vermont each year.

Yea I thought about that $25.00 is too high lol...maybe even for the politicians lol...

 

[from_the_NEK]

Killington/Pico has definitely been the focal point of this year's rash of lost OoB skiers.
However, as people have pointed out Jay has had rashes in past years where people drop off the backside into the Black Falls valley. Stowe has had issues as well in the past. For some reason there haven't been as many recently (at least reported in the media). Are these resorts now doing a better job educating their clientelle about where they are likely to get lost and that they shouldn't go there?
Is Killington not doing something to deter or better educate OoB skiers?

 

[SnowRock]

Everything I read seemed to be a reaction to the recent incidents. I'm actually fine with a small fine, more signage, education... something like that. I just think we should remember that we are talking about close to 4M skier visits in a down year last year. 4M+ in a good year. I just don't think its a huge problem. If its an exponentially increasing issue by all means figure out how best to mitigate... but it should be in line with the size of the problem. Especially one that seems to be occurring in a specific area.

 

[fbrissette]

Penalties might be the least of their problems. If you've followed all 150+ posts in this thread, I think some people here would favor castration so they cant pass on their genes.

This is a slight exaggeration but at the other end of the spectrum, it seems some people here are OK with the free rescuing of yahoos ducking under ropes at 3 PM not knowing if they are heading south or north.

 

[bobbutts]

Very direct fees like the one discussed here satisfy common sense, but given the overall economic impact of skiing/tourism in VT, I'm not sure it's exactly the most fair thing to put the entire burden on ski resorts. Adding more and more regulations and fees makes things more complicated for business and regulators. I'd probably argue that it would be more efficient for the State to fund this less directly if more funds are in-fact needed.
NH has an interesting policy:

In June of 2008, a law was passed authorizing Fish and Game to request reimbursement from negligent hikers. This means if a person’s behavior was negligent and, as a result of their negligent actions, a search mission had to be initiated, they could be billed for the total costs of the mission. While this change in the law has helped the Department recoup some costs, it falls far short of supporting the search and rescue program.

 

[AdironRider]

This is a slight exaggeration but at the other end of the spectrum, it seems some people here are OK with the free rescuing of yahoos ducking under ropes at 3 PM not knowing if they are heading south or north.

So are you saying they should be just left to die, or charged more just because it was more annoying. A rescue situation is a rescue situation regardless of the time of day.

Look Im all for personal responsibility, but the overal vibe of those for charging for rescue seems to be that you think they should have known it was coming. If that was the case, noone would ever get lost ever, and we all know thats not the case.

Noone ever plans to get lost or in an accident. All this talk of you should know better sounds good at face value, but really has no value.

 

[deadheadskier]

$250 is not enough of a deterrent. Make it $2500 - $5000.

Scruffy,

You sound like a fairly experienced skier. If you hit up some slack country and by some unlucky chance fractured a leg requiring a rescue and your rescuers showed up with an invoice for five grand, you'd have no problem just handing them your AMEX card for them to cart your ass out of there?

 

[Scruffy]

Scruffy,

You sound like a fairly experienced skier. If you hit up some slack country and by some unlucky chance fractured a leg requiring a rescue and your rescuers showed up with an invoice for five grand, you'd have no problem just handing them your AMEX card for them to cart your ass out of there?

Check my post #140.

 

[thetrailboss]

Another one:

http://www.wcax.com/story/20558013/what-lures-skiers-out-of-bounds

 

[BenedictGomez]

Another one:

http://www.wcax.com/story/20558013/what-lures-skiers-out-of-bounds

He's from Saratoga, New York.

Thank God he didnt live approximately 18 miles east of there, or he would have been another lost Vermonter. lol.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sorry you have to endure another Rutland Regional Medical Center ad when you watch the vid. Folks wonder why it is so expensive there...because they spend way too much on advertising.

Anyway, here is an interesting quote from the story that fits in with our conversation:

Rescue crews say the trend is nothing new, but there's been a spike in rescue calls this year, draining resources and putting lives at risk."I think the frustration comes in when we stop to think about how many people willingly do this. They knowingly leave the ski area, putting themselves in danger and putting all of the rescue people in danger," Vt. State Police Capt. Donald Patch said.

And watch the video. Notice the rope line and the blunt and obvious signage. Now if folks duck that rope and go right by those signs, and get lost, doesn't it seem like the assumed a pretty big risk? FWIW out here I've seen folks get their passes pulled for ducking ropes and skiing outside the bounds of the ski area or in avi terrain. People understand, and respect, the boundaries.

 

[Mpdsnowman]

It is a numbers game, and as they say its nothing "new" to have to snag these people, its just their is a spike in cases. Typically what I have found is when I see these boundaries, orange fences, signs etc I see them more as a warning rather than a "you go in there and your in big trouble with the resort" type thing.

I think this is a good example...

Basically this is a glade at a popular resort. Its actually not too far off a groomer. You would see all this tape and signage along the boundary line, but you could also see tons of tracks going in and out. And at some point if you went in enough you will in fact end up quite a walking distance from your car...That being said its a great run, plenty know of it, but i also know of people breaking their leg in their. I could show the nasty xray of it but trust me its hard to look at...Now keep in mind its not like out west where vast regions take days to cover, over here I have to say they usually will find you quicker because it is really "compact". But the more that go to the resorts are going to hit these areas . Honestly, nobody needs the wall of china to be built along these boundaries. I think its more of an educational thing to understand the reality..

Now I really think anyone could go thru this area. And at worse case it would be a long walk back. But as I have always said it needs to be respected and sometimes excitement overtakes respect. At that point you are playing into natures hands..

Thats why I think status quo. Who knows..maybe next season their wont be half as much and for no other reason shit didnt happen...