Wildcat for Sale

[kickstand]

The one thing that annoyed me when we visited was that they had four people to sell you lift tickets, but they had a maze with only one enterance to it :blink:

not quite sure what's wrong with that. One line, multiple ticket sellers. When one of them frees up, the person at the front of the line goes to the open window. It eliminates needless line jockeying. Pretty efficient. I wish more places, like Dunkin Donuts, CVS or Walgreen's, did that.

 

[thetrailboss]

So are any of you going to put in a bid for the mountain???

 

[loafer89]

The problem with that was they did not have enough room for the line, which backed up into the cafeteria and the outside deck. In my opinion, they should have been selling tickets at the outdoor windows, as it was a beautiful, sunny March day.

Four seperate lines, to four ticket clerks, I think, would have worked better, especially with the limited space that they had.

 

[Angus]

I rediscovered Wildcat this year and plan to ski it quite abit in the future. I skiied there twice - once mid-week in early march and then April 16 which as I've earlier posted was one of the most glorious days of skiing I've ever experienced.

Given the lack of real estate expansion opportunities - I expect the mountain will not really change. Calculating a price for the mountain is not particularly difficult - given lack of real estate and other revenue generating opportunities, you are looking at some multiple of free cash flow - assuming too an assumption of debt calculated in there too.

I would assume current management neither makes or loses much money so in the prospectus, the price I'm sure reflects an real steep upside reflective of the place being better run (marketing).

It seems that wildcat could do a significantly better job of marketing itself which could have the effect of kicking up skier visits - talking to people on the lifts I was surprised by the # of Mainers who call wildcat home - they just plain like the mountain compared to SR for example. As I said in an earlier post, the place reminds me of Sugarloaf 25 years ago - steep, narrow with some good hard pack thrown in.

Given the options elsewhere in M. Washington Valley - they could position themselves as the place you ski when you grow up or a skiiers mountain (ala MRG) - then again I found lots of terrain from the top for novice skiiers too.

Maybe there is just not enough skiiers in that category. If you think of MWV - you got cranmore and black as very family centric, learn to ski places and then attitash and bretton woods as more resort/intermediate mountains but neither area has a bunch of real character for the advanced skiier.

It would be interesting to see where people stay in the valley, I bet the vast majority stay off mountain (& if you take Bretton Woods out that % skyrockets) - I assume they already work deals with the inns and hotels in the valley or work a them of it's only 15 minutes more for a real mountain experience.

the ski business from an financial operation's perspective doesn't seem that hard - most everything is a fixed cost (operating lifts, snowmaking - variable but you assume some minimum amount), employee compensation) the killer is the weather and getting people to the mountain which is all about good marketing which needs a good plan and cost $$$.

With that said, one of the things I liked about the mountain on my two visits this year was how retro the place seemed compared to the other places I'd skiied but that's proabably why they are for sale!

 

[kickstand]

The problem with that was they did not have enough room for the line, which backed up into the cafeteria and the outside deck. In my opinion, they should have been selling tickets at the outdoor windows, as it was a beautiful, sunny March day.

Four seperate lines, to four ticket clerks, I think, would have worked better, especially with the limited space that they had.

not having the outdoor windows open, especially on a nice day, is an issue. If you have 4 lines with 4 clerks, not only do the lines block the hallway leading in from the front door, you get the people playing the "you get in this line, I'll get in that line" game. That drives me crazy. My wife tries to do that and I give her crap every time.

If there are 4 lines, what if you get stuck behind a guy trying to figure out his lesson options for his 3 kids, all of who qualify for different groups? You're stuck there. Trust me, it's a crappy way of doing things. They probably could have snaked the line thru the lodge better, but the 4 lines thing is terrible.

 

[dmc]

I love Wildcat... Cool funky terrain - great old school cut trails - sweet glades and trees - rockdrops - narrow spots between rocks.... Great vibe...

Hope it doesn't get messed up...

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I haven't been there since they opened things up putting the "new" lifts in. I have looked at it a lot from the other side of the notch :wink: :wink: ,Nudge, Nudge, and it looks like it's a little less Wild than it used to be. Still, great terrain and great view.

Still, what an investor is buying is a "Ski Area", not a "Mountain resort". Perhaps I'm beating a dead Lynx, (as others have said the same thing), there really aren't any revenue expansion possibilities. Sure, you might be able to add more trails, but that doesn't significantly improve cash flow year round, like lodging, Golf, etc.. I am fond of the place (even though I don't go there much.) I doubt a new owner would really be able to change very much.

 

[awf170]

awf wrote

im more scared about them touching the other brook(which is within ski area boundries) because i like it more then T brook, and might seem like a good area for a glade.

I'm guessing you're speaking of the shot off the Bobcat Triple that has the little waterfall jump and rock squeeze. I've been banging my brain trying to remember the name of that but i've come up short. It's become a pretty well traveled "stash" as of late.
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elavator shaft... i love the squeeze, so cool.

 

[awf170]

i think i should get my season pass as soon as possible because it is only 150, but my dad thinks i should wait because he thinks the new owners might not accept or it might not be open... personally i think hes oppinions are not right and would probably never happen, but i think they price might go up 50 or 100 bucks so what do u guys think i should do

 

[ALLSKIING]

I have never had the chance to ski wildcat. The last time I was in that area my friends wanted to go to cranmore. Wow that sucked.

 

[awf170]

I have never had the chance to ski wildcat. The last time I was in that area my friends wanted to go to cranmore. Wow that sucked.

oh man that place looks horrible... last time i went to wildcat there were only lke 5 patches of snow on the whole mountain and wildcat was awsome... i dont think it ever even snows there... me and my dad call it mount crummore, with its buddy next door attitrash, not goin to dis black because i have never skied it and it actually looks nice

 

[riverc0il]

Given the options elsewhere in M. Washington Valley - they could position themselves as the place you ski when you grow up or a skiiers mountain (ala MRG) - then again I found lots of terrain from the top for novice skiiers too.

wildcat is the skiers mountain of the WMV (well, lift serviced at least ), but has had some of it's bite taken out over the years. i wouldn't even consider wildcat and MRG remotely similar though, two completely different leagues despite a few items of comparison.

 

[awf170]

i admit the lift ticket is expensive but they have the wildcard 3 days for 110 for you mathmatically challenged that is about $37 a day then you can ski the next day for $25.
This year me and my dad skied at wildcat 7 days for a total of about $500, i think thats cheap... that is $35 per person a day average... not wicked cheap but no that bad either, for being all weekends i think it is cheap

nvm it was $400 that is $28 per person per day

 

[loafer89]

I left Wildcat (with a $55 lift ticket) in March, because the conditions were so bad :angry:

We did try to ski at Black Mountain, but it had very large bare spots and did not look like alot of fun.

We wound up at Cranmore, which is not all THAT bad, and it had better snow conditions than Wildcat with a soft spring snow to ski on. Would I go back again? If I am in the area, yes, and I would want to try the night skiing.

I guess that I hit Wildcat on a bad day, as the non groomed trails were bullet proof, and the groomed trails were poorly maintained, maybe new owners will make it better.

 

[riverc0il]

loafer89, you definitely hit the cat on a bad day as trail maintainence is one thing i definitely can not fault the cat over despite my other critical issues i take with operations and management. the cat is prone to nasty weather just like cannon due to it's location. the wind can be simply aweful which combined with a sudden freeze can make for pretty tough snow conditions. hit the cat on a nice spring day and the snow conditions are usually excellent.

one tough aspect about the mountain that leads to deteriorating conditions quite quickly is the layout of the "upper" trails. the quad dumps almost every single skier at the some spot on the mountain from which there are usually only four ways down (polecat, lynx, catapult, and wildcat - other options when there's a lot of snow but rarely have i seen the trails under the quad and gondi line open from the top). this creates an optimal situation for certain trails such as lynx and catapult getting scraped and skied off quickly. i'd love to see the lift on skier's right side of the mountain (dopp triple, can't remember the name) run more often. it only goes 2/3's up and it's a fixed grip, but i'd rather ski that lift than the high speed'er on most days, especially if it's windy and the quad is cold to ride. the triple is very protected and goes through some great looking woods.

but it's a higher expense to operate the triple. wildcat generally only runs three lifts: the quad, the bobcat triple (more for the racers), and the snowcat triple for beginners. for the size of the mountain and ski area, that is a very small number of lifts. in a matter of fact, i would believe that is ties MRG for the least amount of lifts at a 4000+ foot mountain or a 2000+ vert foot mountain. i can't think of any other larger sized ski area that has fewer regularly operating chair lifts. wildcat always seemed like an efficient ski area to me that doesn't have as many costs as other ski areas to operate, which is partially why the high ticket cost always blows me away.

 

[awf170]

loafer89, you definitely hit the cat on a bad day as trail maintainence is one thing i definitely can not fault the cat over despite my other critical issues i take with operations and management. the cat is prone to nasty weather just like cannon due to it's location. the wind can be simply aweful which combined with a sudden freeze can make for pretty tough snow conditions. hit the cat on a nice spring day and the snow conditions are usually excellent.

one tough aspect about the mountain that leads to deteriorating conditions quite quickly is the layout of the "upper" trails. the quad dumps almost every single skier at the some spot on the mountain from which there are usually only four ways down (polecat, lynx, catapult, and wildcat - other options when there's a lot of snow but rarely have i seen the trails under the quad and gondi line open from the top). this creates an optimal situation for certain trails such as lynx and catapult getting scraped and skied off quickly. i'd love to see the lift on skier's right side of the mountain (dopp triple, can't remember the name) run more often. it only goes 2/3's up and it's a fixed grip, but i'd rather ski that lift than the high speed'er on most days, especially if it's windy and the quad is cold to ride. the triple is very protected and goes through some great looking woods.

but it's a higher expense to operate the triple. wildcat generally only runs three lifts: the quad, the bobcat triple (more for the racers), and the snowcat triple for beginners. for the size of the mountain and ski area, that is a very small number of lifts. in a matter of fact, i would believe that is ties MRG for the least amount of lifts at a 4000+ foot mountain or a 2000+ vert foot mountain. i can't think of any other larger sized ski area that has fewer regularly operating chair lifts. wildcat always seemed like an efficient ski area to me that doesn't have as many costs as other ski areas to operate, which is partially why the high ticket cost always blows me away.

they did try to fix the summit issue this year by making snow on gondi line... and i think if that summit is bad just ski polecat for the 1/3 the cut across polecat never seems to get as nasty as the other summit trails
About the lift ticket they are expensive because they dont really do much for you, but even the new company probably wont run that triple much just cause it doesnt make money for them espiecially when the quad doesnt have a line
It seems to me wildcats goal is to get steady guest that come atleast 5 times a season, not one times... thats why they have the $25 next day and wildcat 3 days for 110, and the season pass for 18 and under... not to sure how good of an idea it is though with no lodging around though

 

[loafer89]

It would be easier to forgive Wildcat for the poor conditions if it were not for the fact that Bretton woods had great conditions in all areas, groomed, ungroomed and the glades, the day before we went to Wildcat.

The other reason for my leaving Wildcat as previously mentioned was the fact that they had a race ongoing that caused a large part of the trail that we were skiing to be closed. This forced my son and I onto a steep section of a black trail that was extremely icy and dangerous. Warren fell down and slid for nearly 30-40 feet, making him upset and not wanting to even ski down to the bottom. :angry:

This race was NOT marked from above, or believe me you, we would have avoided that part of the mountain.
My son did not want to ski at Wildcat anymore, so we left and went to Cranmore. Warren as at an age were I do not want to scare him with bad experieneces.

We were not alone in our disgust of the way the race area was marked as several skiers (50 or so) were really upset at having to detour around the race area. When I complained to guest services they were very indifferent to the whole situation, which made me even more angry.

 

[awf170]

It would be easier to forgive Wildcat for the poor conditions if it were not for the fact that Bretton woods had great conditions in all areas, groomed, ungroomed and the glades, the day before we went to Wildcat.

The other reason for my leaving Wildcat as previously mentioned was the fact that they had a race ongoing that caused a large part of the trail that we were skiing to be closed. This forced my son and I onto a steep section of a black trail that was extremely icy and dangerous. Warren fell down and slid for nearly 30-40 feet, making him upset and not wanting to even ski down to the bottom. :angry:

This race was NOT marked from above, or believe me you, we would have avoided that part of the mountain.
My son did not want to ski at Wildcat anymore, so we left and went to Cranmore. Warren as at an age were I do not want to scare him with bad experieneces.

We were not alone in our disgust of the way the race area was marked as several skiers (50 or so) were really upset at having to detour around the race area. When I complained to guest services they were very indifferent to the whole situation, which made me even more angry.

sounds pretty crappy, im not going to try to defend wildcat on that im just going to say you should give them another try, try going in late march or early april for some awsome spring skiing

 

[awf170]

hey loafer just noticed you went to wildcat a day afer me, ya that weekend was crap, by far my worst day ever at wildcat... still had fun though, only reason is because i love to kill myself with sick terrian, with rock hard moguls and ice and rocks

heres my pics from that day notice the sarcasm about sayin that conditions were good
http://forums.alpinezone.com/module...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

 

[NHpowderhound]

I love Thompson Brook area. Perhaps some of the steepest and tightest wooded lines out there. I know i've grabed onto a few trees in there for evasive action! Definately not for an intermediate.
Loafer, Wildcat in the spring is in my opinion,one of the best spots in New England to ski. Right up there with Sugarloaf.
Bretton Woods has a much lowerBsae and summit elevation than Wildcat and that dramatically affects lift operation. In fact this is posted on the Bretton Woods web site; "Wind is not a factor at Bretton Woods! Wind has affected lift operation only 4 out of 3935 days." Quite remarkable IMO. Kudos to them. I will get the Bold and Beautiful pass(Cannon/B Woods) this year if they offer it, just because of that. It's too bad thier glades are so short and pretty mellow. I'll take em though if Cannon is shut down from wind. :wink:
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