Wildcat Lifetime Season Pass Controversy

[Breeze]

Facebook: Keep Wildcat Wild

They aren't done flailing. Personally I think they've shot themselves in the foot at this point. Certainly they aren't trying to make nice with Peak.


Breeze

 

[puckoach]

I'm not a lawyer, and have no dog in this fight.

But, it does appear to me that;

Previous owner developed the terms of an offer for service, then accepted money for the sale of said offer.

That the previous owner did not have the right to offer this service, based on the terms of his lease.

At some point, he felt he had a loop hole, and "sur" charged something for this service, which resulted in a law suit.

Said law suit was settled based on eliminating the "sur" charge.

Said setlement appears to have been negoatiated with plaintiffs, while the owner was in neogotiations to sell. Thereby negotiating the settlement, with the understanding that the buyer would have to deliver the terms of the settlement.

Owner then agreed to a sale, without full filling the terms of his settlement.

Sorry, but to me, this sound like a criminal case for fraud.

The discovery process would be needed to actually determine the facts.

But, it also appears the new owners closed based on knowledge of this situation as well.

If I was holding interest, I would be calling the NH AG.

 

[Breeze]

It isn't known that the original offer of Lifetime passes was outside the terms of the original USFS Permit. We are talking 1960-1982.

Last issue of LTP was for the '81-'82 season.

It isn't known exactly when the USFS Permit Process ceased to recognize the validity of those long term passes, or may have changed to require fees paid based on value, but certainly the Franchi Management Permit issued in April of 1986, for a term of 40 years, held them in good stead.

It is known that there HAVE been major revisions to the USFS Ski Area Fee Permit System over the course of years, which have resulted in additional fees required, payable by Wildcat on behalf of the lifetime/long term passholders. The LTP's balked at being asked to pony up to that.

Believing that the USFS Special Use Permit process or ski area permit fee system has remained static for 4-5 decades is not reasonable.

I guess I can't go much farther than that otherwise I'd get my knuckles rapped for going into political discussion.

Breeze

 

[Tin Woodsman]

I'm not a lawyer, and have no dog in this fight.

But, it does appear to me that;

Previous owner developed the terms of an offer for service, then accepted money for the sale of said offer.

That the previous owner did not have the right to offer this service, based on the terms of his lease.

At some point, he felt he had a loop hole, and "sur" charged something for this service, which resulted in a law suit.

Said law suit was settled based on eliminating the "sur" charge.

Said setlement appears to have been negoatiated with plaintiffs, while the owner was in neogotiations to sell. Thereby negotiating the settlement, with the understanding that the buyer would have to deliver the terms of the settlement.

Owner then agreed to a sale, without full filling the terms of his settlement.

Sorry, but to me, this sound like a criminal case for fraud.

The discovery process would be needed to actually determine the facts.

But, it also appears the new owners closed based on knowledge of this situation as well.

If I was holding interest, I would be calling the NH AG.

Just like the K-Mart lifetime passholders did. The only people who won, as always, were the lawyers.

 

[gmcunni]

can't believe everything you read on Facebook (or the internet for that matter) but if this is true it is really F'd up for the wildcat lifetime passholders-

Is very disappointed that Peak resorts is not honoring lifetime pass holders at wildcat, but are allowing lifetime pass holders of Attitash to now ski at Wildcat.

 

[eatskisleep]

can't believe everything you read on Facebook (or the internet for that matter) but if this is true it is really F'd up for the wildcat lifetime passholders-

From what I understand this is true. Family friends of mine invested in Attitash back in the day (lots re: might have saved the mountain) and they subsequently were given lifetime passes at Attitash. Now they claim their lifetime pass will work at Wildcat; I guess we will have to see this season if it actually does, but I have every reason to believe that my sourse is telling the truth (at least from the information he is currently given in regards to his pass).

 

[midd]

were the attitash lifetime passes honored at the other ASC resorts? If so, that'd be a tough precedent to ignore.

 

[threecy]

The Wildcat pass dispute has been the lead in just about every Conway Daily Sun over the past week. The other day, it was mentioned that Attitash lifetime passholders are apparently going to be allowed to ski Wildcat this year.

An excerpt from today's lead letter:

Anyone reading this would blame the Forest Service for the situation with the pass holders. The Forest Service is not to blame. Claiming that a list of lifetime pass holders and a request to honor their passes was placed in negociations but could not be honored because of the Forest Service is very misleading. It is true that the Forest Service cannot recognize this type of arrangement. The land is leased to Wildcat for 100 years. Corporations like Wildcat/Peak Resorts can do whatever they want in issuing passes. You can call them long term, special guest or VIP. In my opinion, it was legal strategy to divert the issue. Our passes never related to the land (Forest Service), it related to the lifts. Like all Americans we can enjoy the land that is federally owned as long as we respect and use it properly. The lifts belong to the corporations. Our money went to buy the lifts, not the land. Nice try guys! I am still here and still alive and I want to use my lifts.

P.S. Isn't part of Attitash on Forrest (sic) Service land? I wonder why those lifetime/long term passes are being honored?

 

[Breeze]

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/lwsch/journals/bcealr/28_1/03_FMS.htm

It's long, and chiefly concerned with Western Development, but it is spot on in a time line of the changes USFS has made to their permitting process over the course of time.


Breeze

 

[puckoach]

As a Pisces, I do have a little concern with the sale. Still Free to Ski on your Birthday ???

 

[polariso]

As a Pisces, I do have a little concern with the sale. Still Free to Ski on your Birthday ???

I believe that's gone as well. A few other deal days too.. correct me if im wrong here.

 

[eatskisleep]

Yep, gone.

 

[threecy]

So, Attitash and Wildcat open for the season tomorrow, December 11th.

Black, Cranmore, and King Pine will have all opened before them.

 

[deadheadskier]

wow

heck even Ragged was open last weekend.

Wildcat makes some sense due to the transfer in ownership. If I were a condo owner at Attitash, I'd be rather pissed.

 

[billski]

wow

heck even Ragged was open last weekend.

Wildcat makes some sense due to the transfer in ownership. If I were a condo owner at Attitash, I'd be rather pissed.

I would postulate that for Peak Resorts, it's all about money. If they don't see it as a profitable, don't start.

 

[midd]

two or three years ago, attitash opened top to bottom on Illusion exactly one month earlier than this year's date.

 

[dl]

I was up there over T'giving and last weekend. In both cases the weather had not cooperated enough to go full force on snowmaking with the chance that all could be wiped out. The bottom line is that if I were them, i wouldn't have bet the farm either. Hey, they missed one weekend of what I heard was pretty crappy skiing (reports from others in the valley). I've skied at Attitash enough to know that when they do open up they'll do as good a job or better than most with their ability to make snow and have the best possible conditions.

As for "two or three years ago, Attitash opened top to bottom on Illusion.....", that has almost no relevance. Weather happens....or it doesn't. This is New England. Everybody should chill out (pun intended).

 

[eatskisleep]

That's why I am skeptical over Peak's and running late season. At Attitash in the summer for biking they used o be open Memorial day weekends to June 23 or so, then open everyday. They go back to weekends come Labor day and stay till Mid October. Now they are just open from June to beginning of September with no additional weekends for biking.

 

[riverc0il]

So, Attitash and Wildcat open for the season tomorrow, December 11th.

Black, Cranmore, and King Pine will have all opened before them.

The email I just received says that Wildcat will only open for the weekend. So they are not in fact opening for the season. I think that means Wildcat will be the last 2k vert mountain in the east to open for the season.

:smash:

 

[riverc0il]

two or three years ago, attitash opened top to bottom on Illusion exactly one month earlier than this year's date.

In 2007, Attitash blew in October:
http://www.thesnowway.com/2007/10/30/first-turns-of-the-season-at-attitash

Things have certainly changed for the ownership since then. Crotched used to blow really early too. Doesn't seem like they see the value in early season excepting the early season park skiing that Mount Snow has done recently. Wildcat is kind of excepted due to the ownership transfer (at least for this season) but I don't think you'll see any more pre-Thanksgiving openings for either of these two mountains, let alone last week of October which has happened at least twice in the past six years.