Yeah, but how good of a Samaritan?

[dmc]

It could be because I ussually ski with patrollers too.. They HAVE to help.. I'd just get in the way.

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"

or
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry he is"

.

 

[tjf67]

Hell no...I'm not that good. But I don't lose equipment with every fall. And I sure don't yardsale every fall.

And if I do go down and lose some equipment it's usually just a ski or a pole. And I don't slide 200 feet before even trying to stop. And I hold onto whatever equipment I have left and make sure it stays with me instead of seeded the entire run with gear. And I sure as hell don't want other skiers trying to ski down to me with my gear and then crash or crash into me "helping" me out. At least half the times I've been hit on skis happened when either someone tried to "help" me and wound up skiing into me or I tried to help and got hit standing near the downed skier. So I stopped doing it.

When I was an instructor, I had a rule about "helping" newbies when they fell. I did it once. Then they learned to stand up on their own. Yeah, I'd stand and give them directions on how to move into a position conducive to getting up, but they have to learn to get up themselves. Sometimes they would sweat getting it done, but I was there for verbal support and a pat on the back for success.

Because like you started your post, everyone falls when they ski and you need to learn to get up and gather your stuff by yourself.

This does not mean I just ignore pileups on intermediate or beginner terrain, places I might EXPECT to see wipeouts because these people are LEARNING to ski. But I've seen stuff on Clair's and other EXPERT terrain that makes me turn away in fear of getting involved, people in way over their heads who do smart things like REMOVE skis so they can warp down into a fence instead of just sliding. Or who start to slide and just continue, then stand at the bottom and complain that nobody is helping them. I'm getting involved with that? Why? So I can get sued for giving advice or getting them back on skis only to watch them take out 3 other skiers?

A lot ot times there are no lessons to be learned. Most of the crashes I see involve a ski popping of and the skier continueing on down the hill. I will pick up the ski and bring it down to them. When I fall it usually because of a premature ejection. I make it down to a controled crash and only have my ski up above. Most of the people I am around will grab the ski bring it down drop it on the way by. Thats all. Its a easier on everyone. I am outa of the way quicker. I dont have to walk up the hill. If I do see someone having a hard time getting the ski back on because of whatever reason I will give them a hand. it takes a lot of years to figure out how to efficiently get you ski back on when the pitch is very steep.

Maybe its the hills you ski I dont see that many people where they don't belong on whiteface.
As far as the suing thing I think you are reaching now.

 

[jack97]

You help someone on terrain they have no business being on and they just go right back down that run again...and probably yardsale again. How is that help?

Can't buy that 100% of the time..... I ski a lot at wachusetts and bretton woods. Basically, lots of beginner terrain. I seen lots of wedge turns on hard terrain. Usually they know they are over their heads and they rarely repeat on the same day. Over at bw, I've seen skiers hike up a trail to back track because they realize they skied right into a mogul field.

 

[JimG.]

Can't buy that 100% of the time..... I ski a lot at wachusetts and bretton woods. Basically, lots of beginner terrain. I seen lots of wedge turns on hard terrain. Usually they know they are over their heads and they rarely repeat on the same day. Over at bw, I've seen skiers hike up a trail to back track because they realize they skied right into a mogul field.

Remember where Hunter is located...NY.

You're talking about mountains located in ski country. Hunter is a suburb of the tri-state area.

And as many here love to point out, we have a certain type of clientele who like to challenge themselves on terrain over their head just to say they did it.

I've heard people here complain they hate Hunter just because of that fact. So you can't have that argument work both ways now.

 

[JimG.]

Maybe its the hills you ski I dont see that many people where they don't belong on whiteface.
As far as the suing thing I think you are reaching now.

I ski at Hunter...I spend time on just about every run I ski with folks who don't belong there. See my last post to jack97.

There have been stories about lawsuits filed against "good samaritans"; you don't hear much about good samaritan laws anymore...that's because the legal system has made them obsolete. People sue for anything nowadays.

I'm leaving the premature ejection comment alone.

 

[lloyd braun]

IThere have been stories about lawsuits filed against "good samaritans"; you don't hear much about good samaritan laws anymore...that's because the legal system has made them obsolete. People sue for anything nowadays.

True. I have heard of some of those civil lawsuits as well.

 

[lloyd braun]

And as many here love to point out, we have a certain type of clientele who like to challenge themselves on terrain over their head just to say they did it.

Yes, we have them too, a lot of them come from the east coast but most come from Texas.

Highland bowl perfect example. When you get on the Snocat to go out there, even the cat driver asks you, to ask yourself if you can ski the fall line. If you can't you are supposed to get off and not go ski the bowl.

You know why, the ski patrol mandates it, and would prob pull your ticket if they caught you up there twice struggleing. I have seen them stop people and ask them to come back when they have the skills to ski the slope. There is plenty of good expert terrain to ski besides the bowl.

But people want to be able to say " I did Highland Bowl". those are the people who have no reason to go there. They are in fact ruining it for those who have the skills. Is that snobby or just a progressive way to manage a mountain. You know ,to keep the goods, the goods?

 

[JimG.]

Yes, we have them too, a lot of them come from the east coast but most come from Texas.

Highland bowl perfect example. When you get on the Snocat to go out there, even the cat driver asks you, to ask yourself if you can ski the fall line. If you can't you are supposed to get off and not go ski the bowl.

You know why, the ski patrol mandates it, and would prob pull your ticket if they caught you up there twice struggleing. I have seen them stop people and ask them to come back when they have the skills to ski the slope. There is plenty of good expert terrain to ski besides the bowl.s

But people want to be able to say " I did Highland Bowl". those are the people who have no reason to go there. The are in fact ruining it for those who have the skills. Is that snobby or just a progressive way to manage a mountain. You know ,to keep the goods, the goods?

Snobby? Because they protect idiots from their own base nature? Certainly not.

Progressive? I'll keep it simple and just say smart. For many reasons.

Do people have a right to get themselves into trouble? Some in America will jump up and say indeed yes and the right is protected by the constitution. Well I'm not one of them...you don't have a right to be an idiot and get yourself and others who might have to come rescue you (yes, rescue which is alot different from help) in trouble. We've had discussions here about that and most folks say charge them for the rescue. Why? Shouldn't our good samaritan status say we help for free because we want to help?

I may as well totally trash any semblance of good samaritan status by saying I don't enable homeless people to stay homeless by giving them money. I'm not naive enough to think that money is going into an investment account to earn money for a home purchase. That money is being used for a bottle of Thunderbird.

You help people who do stupid things and they continue to do stupid things. Whatever works is how they think.

 

[JimG.]

I'm surprised HPD hasn't outed me yet for flagrant pot stirring.

I was the guy who stopped and picked up Brian's equipment when he yardsaled last season at Gore and smacked his head onto boilerplate. I'm the guy who picked up the freshest ball of snow I could find and put it on his bleeding lip. I'm the guy who carried his poles and skied after him to make sure he got down to the lift OK. And we all waited for him as he got checked by patrol.

Because as funny as it was afterwards, it wasn't funny to me when I saw his head snap back on impact. Getting hurt is not funny and I would never leave an injured person alone anywhere.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Yes, we have them too, a lot of them come from the east coast but most come from Texas.

Highland bowl perfect example. When you get on the Snocat to go out there, even the cat driver asks you, to ask yourself if you can ski the fall line. If you can't you are supposed to get off and not go ski the bowl.

You know why, the ski patrol mandates it, and would prob pull your ticket if they caught you up there twice struggleing. I have seen them stop people and ask them to come back when they have the skills to ski the slope. There is plenty of good expert terrain to ski besides the bowl.s

But people want to be able to say " I did Highland Bowl". those are the people who have no reason to go there. The are in fact ruining it for those who have the skills. Is that snobby or just a progressive way to manage a mountain. You know ,to keep the goods, the goods?

That's why I call places like that lemming magnets. The goods should be allowed to remain the goods...I've got no problem with the idea of patrol having a discussion with someone who gets themselves in over their heads in terrain like Highlands bowl...its not like being on outter limits or white heat, its a completely different level of f-k yourself up if you're an idiot terrain. People who don't belong out there are putting everyone around them at risk...not just themselves...an uncontrolled cartwheel down there could seriously mess up anyone caught in the way. They can go and practice off the DT lift until they are ready. Its like experts hauling ass through the beginner zone...but MUCH more dangerous.

 

[JimG.]

Its like experts hauling ass through the beginner zone...but MUCH more dangerous.

Wow, excellent point.

That's a clipped ticket to me. And I'm down for chasing the idiot down and turning them in also.

And the cartwheel is much more dangerous than that.

Ever been blindsided by a rag doll?

 

[kingslug]

Wow, excellent point.

That's a clipped ticket to me. And I'm down for chasing the idiot down and turning them in also.

And the cartwheel is much more dangerous than that.

Ever been blindsided by a rag doll?

Like the 2 we saw coming at us on Clairs. A truly scary event. They didn't even slow down on their way into the fence and rocks. Had they hit one of us it would have been a disaster, they where going about 30mph. I have never seen more out of control crashes than on Clairs. And what can you do with these people? Their equipment is scattered all over the place, hundreds of feet apart, and sometimes body parts. I usualy tell a patroller. Like the time I saw a guy trying to make his way down, when it was closed and a solid sheet of ice, a line had broken on a snow gun so this was real ice. The patroller swore up and down because he now had to risk his life gettin this idiot out of there. They found him trying to get down through the woods.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Experts hauling ass through a beginner zone..that's horrible...Slow skiing zones for me mean skiing in a 15mph powerwedge with my poles straight up..and a crazy look on my face..The ski patrollers never stop me when I do that but if I'm making lots of slow deliberate short turns at 10mph..I get whistled at...this applys on Paradise at Blue mountain..a 6,000 foot long green cruiser where you can still pick up alot of speed on hardpack days..

 

[millerm277]

Experts hauling ass through a beginner zone..that's horrible...Slow skiing zones for me mean skiing in a 15mph powerwedge with my poles straight up..and a crazy look on my face..The ski patrollers never stop me when I do that but if I'm making lots of slow deliberate short turns at 10mph..I get whistled at...this applys on Paradise at Blue mountain..a 6,000 foot long green cruiser where you can still pick up alot of speed on hardpack days..

As long as the trail isn't dangerously crowded...I always tend to ski fast through the beginner areas, and I give the beginners plenty of room.