Zermatt this Winter

[skiberg1]

How was Flumserberg? I've gone past it many times and always wanted to give it a try. I also have wanted to try the area in Liechtenstein. You are so right, there are literally hundreds of small to med sized resorts that will probably be great for a day. That's how I found Pila and why I like skiing in Europe. Discovering the unknown place that no one has ever heard of that absolutely rip.

Go To Engleberg. Trust me its unreal.

 

[elks]

Here's my criteria:
- We are going with 4 to maybe 6 people.
- We are all expert skiers, want to ski steeper terrain and have some adventure.
- Planning on hiring a quide for at least one or two days.
- We may not bring skins and back country gear. Don't have room for two full setups. but will do moderate hikes.
- We would rather not ski crowded areas or glitzy resorts, just as long as there are good options to have dinner and apre ski.
- lodging can be a chalet or hotel. We are flexible as long as it is comfortable.

I don't think you want Zermatt based on your criteria. To me Zermatt is for: 1) romantic gateway (I was there on part of our honeymoon), 2) foodies (truly spectacular places to eat including charming lost restaurants on the mountains that you can ski to and have a 3 star meal), 3) glitzy resort. I did it once for the right occasion and it was a blast, but if I really want to ski in Europe (I grew up there), it's not the place I would return. You might want to look at Les Portes du Soleil, Les Trois Vallées, or if you want a more unusual experience, look into Grandvalira-Vallnord in Andorra (Pyrénées).

 

[slatham]

I don't think you want Zermatt based on your criteria. To me Zermatt is for: 1) romantic gateway (I was there on part of our honeymoon), 2) foodies (truly spectacular places to eat including charming lost restaurants on the mountains that you can ski to and have a 3 star meal), 3) glitzy resort. I did it once for the right occasion and it was a blast, but if I really want to ski in Europe (I grew up there), it's not the place I would return. You might want to look at Les Portes du Soleil, Les Trois Vallées, or if you want a more unusual experience, look into Grandvalira-Vallnord in Andorra (Pyrénées).

Great info. How would your recommendations change for a mid-December trip?

 

[elks]

Great info. How would your recommendations change for a mid-December trip?

For sure scratch Andorra for mid-December. I would recommend Les 3 Vallées, which has Val Thorens, one of the highest base resorts (maybe the highest?) in Europe. You could also consider a base at Les Menuires, which is not as high as Val Thorens, but it's an easy lift ride to Val Thorens. Don't recommend Courchevel for early season. In the 3 Vallées, all 3 resorts are interconnected. You can ski freely between them.

Another option is Chamonix. "Smaller" than Les 3 Vallées or Les Portes du Soleil, but if early season snow is lacking, you always have glacier skiing. And you have access to some truly iconic spots such as l'Aiguille du Midi, which gives you access to the famous Vallée Blanche descente (20 kilometers!) and the Mont Blanc is right there. You can also get the Mont Blanc Unlimited pass, which gives you access to Verbier (Switzerland) and Courmayeur (Italy). The three resorts are not interconnected, but shuttles are available or you can get an off-piste guide to discuss options to cross that way.

 

[slatham]

For sure scratch Andorra for mid-December. I would recommend Les 3 Vallées, which has Val Thorens, one of the highest base resorts (maybe the highest?) in Europe. You could also consider a base at Les Menuires, which is not as high as Val Thorens, but it's an easy lift ride to Val Thorens. Don't recommend Courchevel for early season. In the 3 Vallées, all 3 resorts are interconnected. You can ski freely between them.

Another option is Chamonix. "Smaller" than Les 3 Vallées or Les Portes du Soleil, but if early season snow is lacking, you always have glacier skiing. And you have access to some truly iconic spots such as l'Aiguille du Midi, which gives you access to the famous Vallée Blanche descente (20 kilometers!) and the Mont Blanc is right there. You can also get the Mont Blanc Unlimited pass, which gives you access to Verbier (Switzerland) and Courmayeur (Italy). The three resorts are not interconnected, but shuttles are available or you can get an off-piste guide to discuss options to cross that way.

Thanks. Val Thorens had been on the radar. Was also looking at Zermatt primarily as I have an Ikon pass, and it has glacier skiing in case of no snow.

 

[skiberg1]

Mid-December is a total crapshoot. I would only consider a few places. Not because other places may not have snow, but because these places most certainly will. I like the Tirol area because of a consistent snow history.
1. The AT Glacier resorts (Stubai, Piztaller and especially Hintertux)
2. Obergurgul, AT - Non glacial but excellent snow and right next to Solden which has two glaciers, but its more limited than others.
3. Levi- Finland. Decent vert, very similar to an Eastern US resort, but snow certain.
4. Ischgl- Maybe- non-glacial but good snow and excellent snowmaking.

Keep in mind that at that time of year off piste in Europe is very limited and often quite dangerous.

 

[catskillman]

Here's my criteria:
- We are going with 4 to maybe 6 people.
- We are all expert skiers, want to ski steeper terrain and have some adventure.
- Planning on hiring a quide for at least one or two days.
- We may not bring skins and back country gear. Don't have room for two full setups. but will do moderate hikes.
- We would rather not ski crowded areas or glitzy resorts, just as long as there are good options to have dinner and apre ski.
- lodging can be a chalet or hotel. We are flexible as long as it is comfortable.

Go to Val d'Isere and stay at the Club Med. Ski in/out and guides are included for 5 days of the 6 day lift ticket included. OPen bar 3 meals a day......... amazing place...........

 

[kingslug]

Booking Europe too early can be a real crap shoot. I've had more so so days than really good ones. I did score at Zermatt in February though..even almost got buried in an avalanche! very exciting.

 

[slatham]

Booking Europe too early can be a real crap shoot. I've had more so so days than really good ones. I did score at Zermatt in February though..even almost got buried in an avalanche! very exciting.

Timing is being driven by daughter taking a couple days at the end of her semester abroad to ski. If everything lines up I could join her. So more about family and Alps touring than a pure ski trip. That said, I do want to maximize our chances of getting decent skiing.

New information is my Daughter’s desire to see a World Cup Race in Europe (me too honestly). SO that means either St. Moritz (more likely given it’s the Woman) or Val d’Isere

 

[BenedictGomez]

my Daughter’s desire to see a World Cup Race in Europe (me too honestly). SO that means either St. Moritz (more likely given it’s the Woman) or Val d’Isere

I like your daughter's thinking. I've always wanted to see the Hahnenkamm since I started watching racing when I was younger. Some day.

 

[deadheadskier]

Booking Europe too early can be a real crap shoot. I've had more so so days than really good ones. I did score at Zermatt in February though..even almost got buried in an avalanche! very exciting.

What mountain is the say "Alta" of Europe?

I have no immediate plans of skiing Europe, but have done some research. I haven't really found a site that is specific to average snowfall. It's harder information than it is to look up North American ski areas that average 350"+

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[AdironRider]

What mountain is the say "Alta" of Europe?

I have no immediate plans of skiing Europe, but have done some research. I haven't really found a site that is specific to average snowfall. It's harder information than it is to look up North American ski areas that average 350"+

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

I'm sure there is some regional variation, but I've always heard that the snowfall amounts in Europe pale in comparison to the US. Like around 100-150 in a good year low so the equivalent of like Gunstock.

 

[skiberg1]

Warth or Schrocken in St Anton. Roldal in Norway. Obertaun eastern AT. Andermatt CH. Id say these are some of the biggest snow areas in Europe. Few others but none have the unique terrain variation of Alta. Andermatt may be closest, but limited below tree line.

 

[BenedictGomez]

So, other than the unique cultural experiences, is there any "ski reason" to ski in Europe as opposed to the US or Canadian Rockies?

 

[skiberg1]

I often wonder. When the snow is good, the off-piste can be life changing. You will never look at skiing in the same way again. The above tree line, high alpine terrain, is so much more significant that the US. The vert can be crazy. 10 mile long consistent intermediate terrain is not uncommon. You can spend far less times on lifts in Europe because runs can take so long. I have skied many times for an hour straight. The vastness of the terrain is unmatched. Miles upon mile upon mile. Imagine Cannon, Loon and BW all as one ski area and completely interconnected and some are probably still bigger. The food on the mountain is way, way, way, way better. The partying is way, way, way crazier. It is also much cheaper to ski.

I fly the Boston to Zermatt flight regularly. Its generally around 1k or so, but can be cheaper and rarely above $1,200. I gen figure about $500 to fly out west. Travel time is similar. The overnight flight to Zurich is 6.5hrs to 7.5hrs depending upon wind. Unless you fly direct Boston to Denver or SLC, I find its a time savings. Skiing is so much less $ at many areas, although the Disney type resorts like Zermatt are steadily increasing prices. You can ski all over for less than $50 per day. You can get great hotels for less, that often include a tremendous dinner. The total costs usually ends up being about the same because tix are so much less. (although mega passes like ICON etc. have shifted that a bit, since you may be able to ski out west now without any additional cost).

I like to say its not necessarily better or worse just different. One thing for sure, most(probably almost all) Euro resorts simply don't have the regular and consistent snow of North America.

 

[abc]

The total costs usually ends up being about the same because tix are so much less. (although mega passes like ICON etc. have shifted that a bit, since you may be able to ski out west now without any additional cost).

Until the "mega-multi-resort" passes came along, skiing in Europe were about the same total cost, the lower lift ticket price being one of the key factor. I used to alternate my trips between going east and going west: 1 trip to Europe and 1 trip to the Rockies.

But since the multi-resort passes, I haven't been back to the Europe.

Sure, the multi-resort passes started to include Europe. But since the lift ticket over there was low to start with, the value of that benefit is low. I'd rather take advantage of them by visiting the "high value" (i.e. high ticket cost) mountains of the west!

That is, mountains I want to ski the most.

With the constant shifting of mountain affiliations, I get to ski different mountains each year ON THE SAME PASS!

That situation is bound to settle down. Eventually, there will be less re-shuffling of mountains between passes. Hopefully by then, I would have sampled many more mountains I've never been to before. I'll be in a far better position to choose which group of them would suit me better.

And by that, I mean both in the US and abroad. (planning to hit the Epic component in Japan this winter)

 

[deadheadskier]

So, other than the unique cultural experiences, is there any "ski reason" to ski in Europe as opposed to the US or Canadian Rockies?

The size of many areas is truly difficult to comprehend until you experience it first hand. A place like Vail seems small in comparison. The above treeline experience is far better. I'd say the scenery is better than NA for the most part.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[skiberg1]

That's because Vail is small in comparison. You are right its incomprehensible.

 

[BenedictGomez]

That situation is bound to settle down.

The other situation that is "bound to settle down" is that these Mega-Passes arent going to be this cheap for long. So given you enjoy it, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[kingslug]

We tried to get to Italy from Zermatt..big winds closed it down..so we skied all the way back down into town..down the street and got back on the train up..hours...you don't do that here. And we got lucky as it snowed about 3 feet so we had 7 days of powder all to ourselves and almost no one will go off the trails except us..and the crazy Brits...tree skiing in powder all week. then we missed an avalanche that took out an entire side of a mountain we just skied under with a guide. It was one of the best trips I ever went on. But you have to watch your ass out there even with a guide.