Who represents the Ski Industry Target Market

[JimG.]

Icy moguls suck. So they get groomed.

Stupid.

Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.

See, it's not hard if you think a little.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Stupid.

Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.

See, it's not hard if you think a little.

Assuming the capacity is available and it's a snowmaking trail.

I was at Berkshire East earlier this week and was glad to see they had groomed everything-- even the bump trails. It was the only way to get the mountain in reasonable shape for MLK weekend. They were making snow too and I was happy to find some bumps form in the new coat of manmade.

There are way more scenarios and variables that come into play than "never groom, stupid!"

 

[deadheadskier]

The young crowd would rather watch freestyle "unconventional" steep ungroomed terrain get skied creatively for style points..

This type of terrain doesn't really exist in the East without bumps outside of a few days a season.

areas groom a few more trails now, but they also cut 5 or 10 woods in the last decade. I'll take it.

Cutting tree runs and offering moguls are not mutually exclusive resort operation practices.





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[bdfreetuna]

My point is that there are in most cases many more acres of bumps in the woods to be had compared to the days some here are reminiscing when there may have been more dedicated mogul runs.

Not mutually exclusive but woods hold snow better and get less iced up so perhaps resorts are trying to offer more of the best of both worlds.

If that's the case, I approve.

 

[Not Sure]

Stupid.

Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.

See, it's not hard if you think a little.

Elk 1+ , Has a fun feel. Cornhead put it as styrofoam

 

[cdskier]

Stupid.

Some ski areas like Belleayre and Elk get it. When the bumps freeze keep them and blow 4-6" as a top coat. Makes for great bump skiing season long. Belle and Elk do it regularly.

See, it's not hard if you think a little.

I used to ski Belleayre quite often and loved the way they handled bumps. They also had a good variety of levels of bumps with often letting a couple blues bump up to let people practice bump skiing without being intimidated by them. Belleayre is probably where I really first started to enjoy skiing bumps more.

 

[benski]

Interesting...they really don't know that? With the ease of coming across this type of info on the Internet, I would have thought the younger people would know this easily. When I was in college, spring break was when I always planned my ski trip to VT.

Easy of access does not mean will access it. Everyone is surprised when I tell them I am skiing in late March or April. Also most colleges have spring break earlier than Binghamton.

 

[dlague]

I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.

Ya buddy! More room for us!

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[dlague]

I have brainwashed my kids to love bumps and trees. They don't like parks nor racing. As far as racing they see skiing as a fun thing and don't like to be told when to turn. Although I do find racers are more likely to ski the whole mountain than park rats and can ski better.

My sons all ski bumps not because they love them but because they can. They also are unconventional since they seem to see the bumps as opportunities to launch themselves. I have even watched them straightlining them.

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[abc]

Originally Posted by benski I think young people would ski a lot more if they knew they can ski in April and late March. Cheeper lodging, cheeper tickets, more partying, and occasional scantly clad women should make spring skiing popular with younger people but very few people know it even is a thing.

Ya buddy! More room for us!Ya buddy! More room for us!

You get all the room you can have when the mountain shut down the lift due to lack of paying customer!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Intermediate bumps are badly needed. At most ski areas, it's a jump from intermediate groomers to advanced bumps, which I struggle with, barring great conditions.

I've often wondered why that is. They're basically nonexistent, and when they're there, it's usually by accident. Like on a well-traveled intermediate run at the end of a day when there was 4 or 5 inches of snow, you get "accidental intermediate moguls".

 

[abc]

i think the mountains are the way they driven are mostly by the annual skier surveys. Though I don't pretend to know which demographic plays what role in those survey result.

You can see the top resorts are always the ones having high percentage groomers! That's been the case for a long time. In fact, some 10 years ago, not knowing better, I went to Deer Valley just to check out why they're ranked so high! (not a bad mountain at all, but very distinct and clear indication of what the majority of skiers want)

Most of us goes into the woods preciously because there're far fewer people there and the snow stays in good shape longer. So don't complain about the groomer. Be thankful they're there to keep the majority of skiers entertain so they're not crowding the woods.

Bump, that's a different matter. You either know how to know to ski it or you don't. Most people don't know how to ski it naturally. So they stay away. I totally agree with whoever mention the lack of intermediate bump. Without it, those who don't know how to ski bumps never get the chance to learn and progress. So the expert bump runs get maybe 10 skiers on it while the groomer got 100! If you're a resort manager and seeing that ratio, wouldn't you be tempted to flatten the bumps???

 

[abc]

I've often wondered why that is. They're basically nonexistent, and when they're there, it's usually by accident. Like on a well-traveled intermediate run at the end of a day when there was 4 or 5 inches of snow, you get "accidental intermediate moguls".

In the west, there ARE intermediate bump runs. But they're never full width bump runs. They're always half groom and half bumps. If a blue-pitch run has wall to wall bumps, it's rated black! I think the mountain management don't want to scare the shit out of any blue skiers who accidentally venture into a "blue" run only to find wall to wall bumps.

In the east, trails aren't wide enough to be groomed half/half. So if a trail is intentionally left to bump up, it's typically rated as black. The problem there is, for a beginning bump'er, it's hard to judge how hard the "black" bump run is.

 

[56fish]

Without a doubt though, the families with kids demographic will always be a prime industry target, as those families are likely not to just bring more than one person to the ski area/resort, but also purchase other items from food and beverage to lessons to rentals, making them a higher yield group of the area/resort

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W/o a doubt! + a zillion

 

[wtcobb]

+10 to the intermediate bumps. I recall finally getting down the timing and flow at Attitash (Bear Peak side) since I finally had some low-angle bumps to lap and practice (beers at lunch also helped loosen the legs). Some friends who can't ski bumps are definitely wanting to learn, but the curve isn't really even a curve but a huge step.

I'm curious to see how the college/20's pass deals continue and if it pays off for ski areas. I got an after-college pass at Gunstock my first year out of school, skied 35 days that season and was hooked. Took advantage of the For-20's pass at the Bush for a couple years. As my generation ages, starts to earn reasonable income, and starts families, those areas that developed loyalty with the younger crowds could win out.

I'm also a complete anomaly as a millennial who owns a home in a rural area, has a car, and has no idea WTF a Snapchat is.

 

[xwhaler]

Intermediate bumps should definitely be a bigger part of the mix for sure. Many folks see giant bumps on a steep trail and just pass.

Sunapee does a nice job of this as they seed some mellow bumps on a section of the lift line in the Sun Bowl which is a nice training space before skiers venture to the bumps on Flying Goose which are much steeper and more technical.

 

[Jully]

Intermediate bumps should definitely be a bigger part of the mix for sure. Many folks see giant bumps on a steep trail and just pass.

Sunapee does a nice job of this as they seed some mellow bumps on a section of the lift line in the Sun Bowl which is a nice training space before skiers venture to the bumps on Flying Goose which are much steeper and more technical.

If it is a more bump centric mountain, it tends to have intermediate mogul runs I find. I think of SB, Sunapee as both always having good mogul products. Maybe I'm just labeling these places as something they're not though...

Many other ski areas seem to just have ungroomed terrain as an afterthought on a trail that is often the last to receive snowmaking, if it ever does.

All this talk of moguls makes me mourn for saddleback though. It had an awesome mix of runs I thought. Rangeley had some excellent intermediate-ish runs and then Kennebago had some real gems.

 

[Jully]

Cutting tree runs and offering moguls are not mutually exclusive resort operation practices.

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My point is that there are in most cases many more acres of bumps in the woods to be had compared to the days some here are reminiscing when there may have been more dedicated mogul runs.

Not mutually exclusive but woods hold snow better and get less iced up so perhaps resorts are trying to offer more of the best of both worlds.

If that's the case, I approve.

I gotta say I agree with Tuna here. Resorts cutting lots of glades in the past few years and neglecting to do moguls is just reflecting who the target demographic is. People are into trees as the new form of 'advanced' terrain as opposed to wanting to rip a trail like outer limits.

I personally don't think they should be mutually exclusive... glades are bump runs with sticks in the middle of the bumps, but its clear that is what's driving the new age advanced skier these days.

 

[NYDB]

Just leaving a few intermediate runs ungroomed would be nice at a lot of places. The only place you see low angle natural terrain is in the woods.

I blame old people and snowboarders.

 

[bdfreetuna]

All this talk of moguls makes me mourn for saddleback though.

Same here, between this and the other mogul thread Saddleback keeps coming to mind. The single best mogul run I've ever skied (ok, that I can remember..) was Golden Smelt a couple winters ago in the spring with a fresh foot+ of snow. Most successful / longest zipper line I can remember pulling off, on a real old school classic of a trail.